Shortage of land for housing

[kwicky]

Land is a finite resource and many of the population are finding it difficult to secure accommodation. Is there any reason why we don't build high rise flats as we did in the 60's? Now we know the pitfalls the security issue could be tightened up.

[Gromit]

Because no one wants to live in them.

High rise flats were primarily built because they were cheap and quick to build rather than to save land. There is a lot of land in the UK, but it is restricted by red tape and nimbyism. There are moves afoot to 'by-pass' locally elected councils with new Planning Laws making it easier to build.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6675137 .stm

[Reverandfunk]

There is a lot of land and plenty of houses but due to ridiculous prices half the population can't afford them.

[kwicky]

Its not true that people do not wish to live in them. My sister lived in one for many years and although they had no children enjoyed living there as did her neighbours. There is not a lot of spare land in the UK unless you want to infringe on the green belt which is to many sacred. Brown field sites are not usually liked by developers because of the work in clearing them so maybe the government should give them extra incentive.
If they are cheap to build then first time buyers may be able to afford it.

[rabbitygirl]

Agree with Gromit here. There is lots of land out there - all you ever here is keep the green belt. For who? the people? Release some of it and let them have houses. Kevin McCloud is championing this and we are right.

[kwicky]

I think one of the main reasons why high rise flats fell out of favour was because of Ronan Point in East London (Canning Town) where one section collapsed completely probably due to bad design. As many similar structures were in the area they were deemed unsafe. I assume they would not repeat the same mistake again.

[honest_joe]

I agree with Kwicky on this one. A recent count of population by country showed Britain near the top of the league only matched by small island groups. To have a free for all with no green belt will like roads, fill up, and encourage even greater immigration and sprawl. Personally I can't wait to get out of a big city like London but my travel time is increasing every year before seeing green pastures or woods due to the infringement of the green belt..

[sandbach99]

The flats built in the sixties ina lot of cases suffered from concrete rot and became dangerous.

Have you not seen the flats that are being built all over the place, all the mill and warehouse conversions, the large house conversions? The trouble is they are often too expensive to buy if you are at the bottom of the property ladder and are bought by speculators or as a second home by someone who already has a home in the country or at the seaside.

The idea of a green belt is to have a buffer zone between towns and villages so they can keep their identity.
Why have green belt well some people actually earn a living from it ie. farmers, others use it for pleasure, for walking in, playing golf etc. So a certain Kevin McCloud [whoever he is] wants to concrete everything over, where does he think he is going to get his milk for his coffee from, no, it doesn't appear on the supermarket shelves by magic. it comes from green belt land or France,

Our local paper has at least 4 pages of microscopic print showing properties to rent, presumably these are all empty. There is a �11million mansion in Kensington which has been taken over by squatters, it's been rempty for years.

All owners of empty propery should be made to sell them, as should anyone owning a second home they do not live in for 26 weeks per year, there would be plenty of homes and at a lower price. There would be no need for tower blocks of flats

[rabbitygirl]

Kevin McCloud does Grand Designs on TV. The 'Green Belt' is massive and building on some, obviously not all, will help the housing crisis greatly. Go out and see just how much green there is - we can spare some and still leave large spaces around towns. Theres more than there used to be too simply because our farming is decimated. Milk? Much of it comes from abroad because the prices farmers are paid is a pittance and they are selling their milk herds.. I'm old enough to notice how few milk herds are seen in fields now. You know where the farmers are going dont you - in property!

[kwicky]

When I mentioned high rise flats I was referring to the ones with 25+ stories which don't seem on the planners lists anymore and not just the warehouse conversions of only 5 stories.. As house prices are also due to land this is over 30% of the overall cost so makes sense to do this. I'm sure they have overcome the cement problem now so no problem. Also they should not be built in places like Kensington but in poorer areas to keep the costs down and be affordable.

[sandbach99]

I think there are safety aspects in going so high now, I would expect the fire service to object to anything above what their ladders can reach.
Even on green belt land intrusion would have to be considered, there are restrictions on windows with clear glass overlooking existing homes, or you would have to build the flats a distance away from homes, although this land could be a carpark or garages it would add to the cost.

In the past these flats were council owned who picked up the cost of maintenance, in owner occupied flats this cost of maintaining gardens, stars, lifts, window cleaning and a permanet rota of security guards could get very expensive on top of a mortgage.
Rabbity girl Are you going to restrict these homes on green belt to locals or are they to be sold to people who want another home for weekends in the country or speculators buying whole estates just to rent out.
I paid a premium for my house as I overlook two large fields and a small tree surrounded lake, today like most summer days there has been a large herd of milking cows and 2 bulls in one field, right behind my house, I much prefer that to the pink shell-shaped house with polystyrene walls that Kevin McCloud enthuses over .
My milk is delivered, it comes from a local dairy, in glass bottles, collecting in the local area . You don't have to buy from the supermarket.

[rabbitygirl]

Just back from a week away. OK Kevin McCloud was mentioned because he wrote about the only strong article I've read about releasing green belt - I do not suggest building the homes seen on Grand Designs - just the housing most working people would like to live in and afford.
Sandbach 99 - you live in the kind of place I just moved from used to be. I used to see cows - they became unviable. The farm produced eggs too, now its stabling and a caravan store. We used to take our nursery kids to the orchard to play - now its a cheek by jowl to the motorway link. (The authorities by the way can quite easily overule green belt restrictions when it chooses.) Does this sound like the changes you are afraid will happen to your area? Yes. Are these the changes I know will come on the green belt? Yes. But where else do we go. We cannot keep building on our back gardens and living in ever smaller little boxes. There are too many people, too many new households, to keep it all at a standstill. It is the price we will pay. You cannot expect the surroundings to stay the same over the years as demand for housing land becomes stronger.

Protect it and enjoy it while you can by all means. My local field of cows from 20 years ago? A Park and Ride was outvoted (not by me as it was better hidden than houses) then it became a field for travellers to leave cob horses, and now this field appears on a recommended list for a new traveller site.

Also, being able to build more houses on newly released land should mean prices becoming more affordable which for the next generation looking for a roof over their heads would be v welcome. Should we not make the sacrifice of a few green fields and a pretty view for our kids?