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ChatterBank1 min ago
politics
I am new to politics and was wondering whether anyone could define the terms 'centre, left and right' in terms of political views?
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historically, 'right' implied letting people do what they wanted as much as possible; 'left' implied a lot of direction of human activity by the state. For instance, setting up the NHS was a leftist project: everyone has to pay but only the sick use it; on the grounds that it's in the interests of a caring society that nobody should die for lack of money. Rightists would say it's up to the individual to take out health insurance (which is pretty much how it's done in the USA). And 'centre' would be compromises - limits on what you can do but limits on what the state does as well.
It derives from the seating arrangements in the French parliament after the French revolution. The actual meaning of the words changes all the time, though; both Labour and Tories, who would once have been left and right, are now centrists.
It derives from the seating arrangements in the French parliament after the French revolution. The actual meaning of the words changes all the time, though; both Labour and Tories, who would once have been left and right, are now centrists.
There's a wider definition of it here, although it's from wikipedia so expect some bias.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-right_politi cs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-right_politi cs
Of course the left (socialist or old labour) can become extreme left and then it becomes communist (Russia as was).
The right (capitalist or tories) can become extreme right and then it becomes facist (Hitler and the nazis).
Mind you sometimes the extreme left (Stalin, Pol Pot etc) become at bad as the extreme right (Hitler etc) and it is hard to tell the difference.
So working from left to right we get:
Communist (far left) - Socialist (left) - Centre- Capitalist
(right) - Facist (far right).
The right (capitalist or tories) can become extreme right and then it becomes facist (Hitler and the nazis).
Mind you sometimes the extreme left (Stalin, Pol Pot etc) become at bad as the extreme right (Hitler etc) and it is hard to tell the difference.
So working from left to right we get:
Communist (far left) - Socialist (left) - Centre- Capitalist
(right) - Facist (far right).
Until the last 100 years the "left" in Western politics hardly existied.
The people that ran most European countries came from land owners and the "rich". The two parties in the UK years ago were the Whigs and the Tories and were centre or right parties, we had no left party.
The working man had no say in anything that went on and had no rights, no votes, no trade unions.
If you look at the working conditions people had 100 years ago they were awful. Kids as young as 8 working in factories, 12 hour days, no holiday pay (or holiday), no sick pay or redundancy, no social benefits.
The "bosses" screwed the workers into the ground and drove many of them to early graves and became VERY rich in the process.
The left or socialist parties (and trade unions) came out of the desire to give the working man some rights.
We did not get the first Labour (left) government until the 1920s, so only about 90 years ago.
Of course the early labour governments had a lot to do to provide basic support for the working man, like the health service, social benefits, holiday pay, sick pay and so on.
Gradually these things became more acceptable (the Tories were hardly likely to remove them when they came into power).
This gave the "left" less socialist things to fight for, so Tony Blair and his cronies decided the only way to get elected was to move the party more towards the centre.
Cameron now wants to move to Tories away from the right (or far right) towards the centre to make THEM more electable.
So now we have three parties (Labour, Liberal, Tories) all hogging that middle ground with very little to separate them.
The people that ran most European countries came from land owners and the "rich". The two parties in the UK years ago were the Whigs and the Tories and were centre or right parties, we had no left party.
The working man had no say in anything that went on and had no rights, no votes, no trade unions.
If you look at the working conditions people had 100 years ago they were awful. Kids as young as 8 working in factories, 12 hour days, no holiday pay (or holiday), no sick pay or redundancy, no social benefits.
The "bosses" screwed the workers into the ground and drove many of them to early graves and became VERY rich in the process.
The left or socialist parties (and trade unions) came out of the desire to give the working man some rights.
We did not get the first Labour (left) government until the 1920s, so only about 90 years ago.
Of course the early labour governments had a lot to do to provide basic support for the working man, like the health service, social benefits, holiday pay, sick pay and so on.
Gradually these things became more acceptable (the Tories were hardly likely to remove them when they came into power).
This gave the "left" less socialist things to fight for, so Tony Blair and his cronies decided the only way to get elected was to move the party more towards the centre.
Cameron now wants to move to Tories away from the right (or far right) towards the centre to make THEM more electable.
So now we have three parties (Labour, Liberal, Tories) all hogging that middle ground with very little to separate them.
I'm not sure, jno. I get the point you're making, but in many respects the Nazis were not a far right organisation and PoliticalCompass.org tends to support me on this:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2
However - do the test before you read the analysis if you haven't before.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2
However - do the test before you read the analysis if you haven't before.
that's a useful clarification, Walso (not exactly a simplification, though, so possibly not what wentwood is after; and I'm unsure why they see anarchism as leftist). But I wonder if another axis representing something like nationalism isn't called for. I have no problem with the Nazis being labelled leftists - except that they opposed Soviet Russia. Why? Because they thought Germany should be ruled by Germans, I suppose, even though Russian rule mightn't have been much different. Nationalism also explains why people like Ukip, who would normally be rated rairly far to the right, demand maximum state intervention to stop immigrants getting in; it's not for economic reasons, it's just because they don't like foreigners. Both traditional rightists and leftists may be quite happy with immigration - the former to get cheap labour, the latter out of a sense of international brotherhood.
But no, I haven't thought this through; next time I get 10 years to spare, I may try...
But no, I haven't thought this through; next time I get 10 years to spare, I may try...
I'm no economist but I'm pretty sure that Left and Right wing in their original menaings refer to economic policies. Left being state controlled, right being market controlled.
Hitler for example, was about centre in the original meaning of left-right.
A better understanding can be gleaned from the political compass which separates social issues from economic.
See here:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/
Click on "Take the test".
I'm a Neo-liberalist Authoritarian, a bit less authoritarian (y) than Dubya Bush but about the same on the libertarian (x) axis...
Post your results, it will be interesting to see where we all lie...
Hitler for example, was about centre in the original meaning of left-right.
A better understanding can be gleaned from the political compass which separates social issues from economic.
See here:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/
Click on "Take the test".
I'm a Neo-liberalist Authoritarian, a bit less authoritarian (y) than Dubya Bush but about the same on the libertarian (x) axis...
Post your results, it will be interesting to see where we all lie...
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