Integration, or racist? You decide...

[Whickerman]

This from yesterday's Irish Independent. Can i have your opinions? Note: Garda Siochana= Irish Police.


A SIKH member of the Garda Reserve is banned from wearing his ceremonial headdress, the turban.

Integration Minister Conor Lenihan last night backed up the Garda Siochana ruling, saying immigrants to this country must accept our culture.

Minister Lenihan said he has discussed the Sikh case with the Garda Commissioner Noel Conroy.

The gardai are currently forming their views about ethnic forms of headgear for members of the force and the reserve.

As turbans are worn by Sikh police officers elsewhere, most notably the London Metropolitan Police, a compromise may be reached.

Sikhs wear turbans to cover the long uncut hair worn as a sign of their commitment to their religious faith. The turban is a headdress consisting of a long scarf-like single piece of cloth wound round the head or an inner hat.

While acknowledging the issue of the turban is important for the Sikh community, the Minister supported the garda stance. "If we are to take integration seriously, people who come here must understand our way of doing things. When the President and Ministers travel to the middle-east, they accept cultural requirements of the country and the culture they are operating in. It is a vice versa situation with regard to Ireland."

The Sikh man is an IT professional, who decided to join the Garda Reserve.

Minister Lenihan said the general trend was towards wearing the designated uniform.

[Lonnie]

Most interesting whickerman, I'd like to know if it was explained on his interview that he couldn't wear his Turban, because that would have a bearing on whats happening.

[Whickerman]

That's the full text.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sikh-m ember-of-the-reserve-is-banned-from-wearing-tu rban-1057548.html

Note that Gardai do not wear helmets, they wear the standard police hat.http://static.flickr.com/22/39812324_96cf52359e.jpg

Also, bear in mind that there's no threat of legal action or anything on this.

[MrBen5]

Hmmm, whatever is in the article, the Irish have a right to set laws and people must abide by them.
If the job states a certain uniform, then the employee must wear it.
The only exception is if you are muslim...

[sp1814]

What a great pity.

A man demonstrates his commitment to law and order, he shows courage and community spirit, but this isn't enough. He has to take his turban off!

Very short-sighted.

[stokemaveric]

an old saying.....................when in rome do as the romans do.

[sp1814]

This isn't ancient Rome.

This brave young man is potentially putting his life at risk for the people of his local community, and a few dunderheads are mithering about a uniform technicality.

Lunks.

[stokemaveric]

at the end of the day its not a part of the uniform.he should respect that descision.that should be the end of the story.if he doesnt like it then he should resign.simple.

[sp1814]

It's stooopid.

Option A) Keep the uniform exactly as it is, for absolutely no reason and ensure that certain members of the community cannot join.

Option B) Design into the uniform the option of a turban so that Sikhs may join.

No brainer.

It's not like police uniforms have remained the same since the days of Sir Robert Peel.

If I lived in the area where this fella was stationed, I would be more interested in having a someone turn up to my house if I were burgled, turban or not.

[stokemaveric]

1 question.........would a mosque allow an englishman to go there and not remove his shoes?...........................

[stokemaveric]

game,set and match to me i think......................................

[sp1814]

You're not comparing like for like.

First of all, the Gardai isn't a religion which is practiced faithfully by miillons over the world.

Second, what on Earth do practices in mosques have to do with Sikhs???

You do realise that Sikhs and Muslems aren't the same, don't you?

[stokemaveric]

answer the question...............................

[stokemaveric]

and dont split hairs a skkh temple then..........happy now?

[Lonnie]

Unfortunately, the article doesn't answer my question, but I would have thought that evrything to do with his religion would have been discussed beforehand.

Maybe i'm being a little sceptical, but methinks I can smell a claim for compensation coming up.

But then again, its not England, so who knows.

[ruby27]

I don't think the action is racist, just shortsighted. I am assuming the banning of the turban is on the grounds that alternative head wear is not permitted, to include baseball caps and woolly berry's, not that there is a racist belief that people who wear turbans as opposed to western headgear are any less able.
Shortsighted because yes, the Garda can be a stickler on uniform, but this may result in a less than representative force. The Met, presumably overcame the traditional dye in the wool beliefs by realising that having a little modern flexibility, allows for a wider population to be recruiting officers from. This helps to be able to have a choice of candidates to interview and some can be rejected rather than taking on anyone to put bums on seats. Also I understand having a diverse police population reflecting the wider population makes for improved policing.

[ruby27]

stokemaveric

re your point about going into a mosque.

Your are refering to a religious observance. Every seen a sign up at a mosque saying englishmen including those who are Muslims, not allowed in without shoes, or outside a cathedral saying englishmen including those who are Muslims not allowed in wearing swimming costumes. If you choose to go into a place of worship, most people respect the religious observances.

[jake-the-peg]

I think ruby has you bang to rights stoke, I'm pretty sure that if I walked into a church without wearing a shirt I'd be asked to leave no matter what colour I was!

With regard to the actual question I think it is a mistake on the Guada's part.

I do think the law exempting seikhs from wearing helmets on motor cycles is wrong though.

In the former case the only reason is on of dress code, it's an arbitary rule dreamed up by someone sitting in an office as to what is and is not acceptable dress.

The latter is a safety issue

[Kromovaracun]

There's not any reason he shouldn't be allowed to wear a turban (though I know a Sikh, and he just has to keep the hair covered - I've seen him in baseball caps to do so). Saying he can't purely for cultural reasons is really quite petty when you consider he's offering his services to protecting the community.

In the UK, I thought we did have turbans for police officers? I could have sworn I've seen police officers around in turbans, but I might've dreamed it up.

[sp1814]

Kromovaracun

You're correct. Sikh police officers in the Met have been allowed to wear turbans for a number of years now.

I'm guessing that with a larger Sikh community in London, the powers that be recognised the need to adapt the uniform a few years ago whereas there isn't a large Sikh community in any part of Ireland so the question may have never been raised before (?)

[China Doll]

I agree with Ruby. I don't think it's racist but it is short sighted.