Cannibis abuse, 500 a week in Hospital...

[Loosehead]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jse ssionid=2UPTKNWORH1K5QFIQMFSFGGAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/ news/2008/01/11/ncnbis111.xml

Is the halo slipping from the "Non addictive", "Harmless" fluffy Bunny wonder drug?

A prize for the first person to try and change the subject to booze!

[123everton]

Puerile? Please explain?

[paulos66]

Puerile comment was in response to vacant. Thalidamide was maybe a bad example but you get the general idea of lies by big pharmaceutical companies. No idea what you were talking about regarding refusal to pay so I'll make an assumption - you run a dodgems ride they were probably drunk as well as stoned.
I wouldn't deny anybody medicine - do you really think pharmaceutical companies would allow doctors to prescribe that - please read a bit of the history on prohibition

[123everton]

Point taken on the vacant thing, attempt at a joke, thanks for the clarification.
I drive a bus Paul. I deal with people from all walks of life at all hours of the day and night all over the city. I see some sights.

[jno]

I think Everton drives a bus? If so he probably sees a lot more potheads, and more obstreporous ones, than most of us, and his experience deserves a hearing.

[paulos66]

You don't need tobacco - that's a choice.
I don't see how it would be worse -
Britain has one of the highest rates of use in Europe amongst the young - the Netherlands has one of the lowest rates
The war on drugs was lost as soon as it started

[jojojoanne]

Without the 'abuse' of 'natural' drugs(?)......... ( or chemically engineered?) we would not be able to research the effects. Without research what do we as humans know?

[123everton]

Aww! Thanks JNO, I did'nt know you cared.
Group hug!! ;-)

[paulos66]

Legend, it's not a waste if just one person actually reads the book I recommended.
btw I've just replied to your Icke thread after a bit of research

[Goodsoulette]

Well done Leg, nice to see you have phrased your sentence in moderation. For some, I genuinely believe that cannabis is generally one of the most safest substances you can put in your body. From the actual direct immediate effects of the substance you would have more chance of being eaten by a shark. The problem is those with an already undiagnosed mental health problem, I do believe that it might trigger some undelrying problems. The difficulty comes in telling which came first, how do you know that someone didnt start heavy drug use to mask the early symptoms of a mental disease.

It's silly to ridicule people for trying to bring booze into the debate. The immediate effects of alcohol are more dangerous and the long term effects of heavy use are worse too. I don't object to people shouting from the rooftops that cannabis is bad, but it's when they defend alcohol purely because it is legal and they like to drink.

[Loosehead]

Goodsoulette, I wanted to have the discussion about Canibis. When we try and do that we always end up arguing about Booze v Dope. I said early on that I agree booze is worse. In doing that I hoped to induce a discussion about the actual question. I am in no way "ridiculing" anyone.

[paulos66]

Agree, I didn't feel ridiculed and am indeed looking forward to those 3 pints

[123everton]

Tobacco or not, it's still smoking.
I've been to Amsterdam (underwhelmed) the one thing I noticed about the coffee bars is just how quiet they were. Drugs like cannabis make one introverted (vacant) and paranoid, paranoid people can become violent (maniacal) very quickly. The amount of kids I deal with whose eyes are half closed dead almost. I struggle to have sympathy for the Police (perhaps unfairly, or at least a little harsh) but I remember a former chief in the Met saying several years ago that we had to either legalise drugs and prostitution or act against it, he went on to say that at the moment we're doing nothing so things will only get worse. How right he was.

[paulos66]

Smoking - It's actually not the same, but I'll leave you to look that one up as if you find out for yourself you may learn something.
I agree there are plenty of dull coffee shops, I tend to go to the lively ones
They make you introvert and vacant and paranoid - actually they don't - they can in some cases but as long as you've got this closed mind black and white view there's not a lot of point in discussing it.
Reefer Madness by Eric Schlosser may help you understand things a bit more

[paulos66]

It saved me from harder ones - but by keeping it illegal yes there is the problem that it could leader to harder stuff - same dealers but other than that it's like saying alcohol will lead to heroin abuse - rubbish

[123everton]

Smoking a joint smoking a cigarette=smoking.
Introvert and paranoid actually they do.
Paul there's nothing you can teach me about drugs.
You're alcohol analogy is flawed it#s fairer to say lager, onto cider, onto vodka, onto meths.
Two entirly different addictions and a completely different psychosis.

[paulos66]

If you were interested in the truth you'd have looked up the difference but as you've made up your closed mind there's no point - you know best
And of course it was flawed - you miss the point again

[Loosehead]

Paul I'm curious tell me what you won't tell everton. Also, do you live in Holland then?

[123everton]

Since when did smoking become a healthy past time. Paul there's nothing closed about my mind when it comes to drugs, like most people I've been on a journey before I reached this destination (conclusion). I don't live in a cave and stick my head out from time to time.
On another thread I spoke about the difference between experiencing crime and reading about it, I've dealt with far too many drug users to be "impressed" by it's positive values.
It's very easy for you as an educated, literate, 30 something(?) to say it's ok, it's entirely different to an 18 year old, living on a sink estate, semi literate, semi educated with no money no job and no prospect of either because of all of the former.
You can rationalise what you do, observe it's effects and moderate it. They can't, that's why they need drug counselling.
The truth about drugs is that they're harmful, they destroy families, friendships, lives and can result in suicide.
Our children command us adults with giving them the power to say NO! No I don't want a joint, no I don't want an 'E', no I don't want a drink and more importantly again we need to teach girls that not every relationship does'nt have to become sexualised no I'm not giving a w--k, no I'm not giving you a B.J get you're bloody hands off me!
Far too many "educationalists" are failing to teach kids the meaning of the word NO!
And the right to say it.