Guardian Prize Crossword 29,572 Saturday...
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Wardy's Legal Advice.
19 Answers
Following on from tamirras post below, I thought I would spread a little legal advice to my fellow ABers who experience a poor service at a restaurant.
Obvious answer DO NOT PAY.
It is not a criminal offence to do this and if the owner calls the police you have two options.
1) If the manager (or other staff) make a citizens arrest, then you could sue the arse off them for false imprisonment.
2) If you wait for the police, they will say it is a civil debt and would interveen no further.
3) Simply leave.
Few people are aware of this simple law. You pay for the food AND the service. If it is not up to scratch, simple do not pay!!!!
Yes I have done this before at the cheaper end of the restaurant market. I wouldn't advise it on a first date, but the British need to have more backbone when complaining.
But please bear in mind, there has to be a poor service or poor food, not up to scratch.
No need to respond to this boring and serious thread, just thought I'll share my expertise.
Obvious answer DO NOT PAY.
It is not a criminal offence to do this and if the owner calls the police you have two options.
1) If the manager (or other staff) make a citizens arrest, then you could sue the arse off them for false imprisonment.
2) If you wait for the police, they will say it is a civil debt and would interveen no further.
3) Simply leave.
Few people are aware of this simple law. You pay for the food AND the service. If it is not up to scratch, simple do not pay!!!!
Yes I have done this before at the cheaper end of the restaurant market. I wouldn't advise it on a first date, but the British need to have more backbone when complaining.
But please bear in mind, there has to be a poor service or poor food, not up to scratch.
No need to respond to this boring and serious thread, just thought I'll share my expertise.
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That is exactly right Uncle Raymondo.
For example if you had the full monty and the wine was excellent but the food lousy, one may feel obliged to pay for the wine only.
But....................
and here's the good bit.
You are under no legal obligation to pay for just the wine, as you have in effect asked for the whole package.
If the service was that bad, I would take the price of the wine for my own compensation. And they can spin on my twizzling finger!!!!
For example if you had the full monty and the wine was excellent but the food lousy, one may feel obliged to pay for the wine only.
But....................
and here's the good bit.
You are under no legal obligation to pay for just the wine, as you have in effect asked for the whole package.
If the service was that bad, I would take the price of the wine for my own compensation. And they can spin on my twizzling finger!!!!
Are you certain of these facts? If so, very interesting.
I would've thought that if you walked out of a restaurant without paying, in effect you'd be stealing the meal, and therefore liable to prosecution? If it was legal to do this, surely anyone could enjoy a meal, and then say it was awful in order not to pay?
If the service or meal was so poor that this is what you felt like doing, surely a word with the manager, saying you'd like a discount/refund - or free meal at a future date'd be better than being questioned by the police?
I would've thought that if you walked out of a restaurant without paying, in effect you'd be stealing the meal, and therefore liable to prosecution? If it was legal to do this, surely anyone could enjoy a meal, and then say it was awful in order not to pay?
If the service or meal was so poor that this is what you felt like doing, surely a word with the manager, saying you'd like a discount/refund - or free meal at a future date'd be better than being questioned by the police?
I'm all for it, I think people are too soft when it comes to complaining. After all, you're spending your hard-earned cash, so you should expect service and goods to match. I admit I have never just not paid, but I have complained when justified and got either a big discount, free stuff (deserts, drinks...) or half the bill off.
Ice, that is the same as me going out in to the street punching somebody for no reason and they pleading self defence (a lie the crown must prove).
But
This is a civil debt based on the maxim of balance of probabilities. If somebody does this for a living and cons loads of meals. the restaurant has no history of malpractice or poor service, the times of the receipts are well within a reasonable time etc etc etc the probability is YOU are lying in order to get a free meal.
Under criminal theft the first word in the definition is DISHONESTLY. There is no dishonesty in not paying for crappy food or service is there?
But
This is a civil debt based on the maxim of balance of probabilities. If somebody does this for a living and cons loads of meals. the restaurant has no history of malpractice or poor service, the times of the receipts are well within a reasonable time etc etc etc the probability is YOU are lying in order to get a free meal.
Under criminal theft the first word in the definition is DISHONESTLY. There is no dishonesty in not paying for crappy food or service is there?
Hi Wardy & Ray - a few years back, my husband & me were in a restaurant, when on eating my starter, I noticed a weird looking, wriggly green thing in it.
We discreetly beckoned the waitress over & explained that there was a 'foreign body' in my prawn cocktail. She giggled & very sarcstlcally said "Would you like me to take it away & dissect it for you?". I replied yes, but before you do, could I speak to your Manager please - not only about the caterpillar, but also your poor attitude....
Free meals & drinks all round!
We discreetly beckoned the waitress over & explained that there was a 'foreign body' in my prawn cocktail. She giggled & very sarcstlcally said "Would you like me to take it away & dissect it for you?". I replied yes, but before you do, could I speak to your Manager please - not only about the caterpillar, but also your poor attitude....
Free meals & drinks all round!
Hiya icy and smudge, good idea icy, gonna avoid em from now on, lol, but gotta say where we live they are all great, but if I ever get crappy service I am gonna really complain, I won't take another meal though cos they might put a great big goober or snotty in it. or worse,
take care all, good to see you all xx
take care all, good to see you all xx
"but the British need to have more backbone when complaining. " Have you never worked in any type of service industry at all? All british people do all day long is moan, they moan that it's too small, too hot, not hot enough, too much food, veg was undercooked, overcooked, plate wasn't warm plate was too warm!!! Everyone is out for something for nothing.
I hear people in queues at coffee shops kicking up a fuss because their latte has taken over a minute to get to them.
When you are complaining please bare in mind that the 15- 19 year old girl taking your order and receiving your complaint is probably on minimum wage, has been talked at like cr@p i the kitchen and by the customers, and barely gets tipped even when she is giving you perfect service as most of the public think, why should I, that's what her wages are for.
I hear people in queues at coffee shops kicking up a fuss because their latte has taken over a minute to get to them.
When you are complaining please bare in mind that the 15- 19 year old girl taking your order and receiving your complaint is probably on minimum wage, has been talked at like cr@p i the kitchen and by the customers, and barely gets tipped even when she is giving you perfect service as most of the public think, why should I, that's what her wages are for.
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