What have we done to this country.

[vehelpfulguy]

Read these 3 news articles below, ALL FROM THE ONE DAY, and then ask yourself if you like the way this country is going.

I used to love living here and was proud of my country. I now hate living here and I am disgusted with what the politicians have done to our country.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7391 753.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7391 750.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7392287.stm

[stokemaveric]

lets get things into perspective here vhg,these are black on black killings are they not?they have a violence culture of their own.i feel sorry for the innocent victims but a lot of them are gang,drug related murders brought upon the black community by themselves they are their own worse enemy..........................

[Lonnie]

Going on stokemaverics line, and those reports, I agree with what he says, but countrywide, innercity youngsters carrying weapons has become the norm, regardless of colour.

As to what we've done to the country, you only have to go back to 1997 where it started to take off.
Yes, there were people carrying wepons with intent before that, but not children to the scale we have now.

[stokemaveric]

i agree lonnie kids nowadays carry knives and in some cases even guns,you really have to wonder if there is too much violence on the tv,films computer console games etc etc,

[sp1214]

From all the propaganda in the media you would believe its all our fault. When the politicians wake up from their state of denial maybe things will move forward.

[sir.prize]

stopkemaveric - I guess you didn't look at vhguy's third link. The two victims were not black. And one of them lived in my home town. But the violence culture you refer to does not seem to have any boundaries these days.

[Kromovaracun]

The country's worse off in some ways (constant health-and-safety culture and niggly intervention by the govt. [which is still better than the corporatism of the 70s, mind, but still annoying]). Crime's by-and-large gone up slightly in some areas, but has also decreased in others.

According to official HO stats, crime has increased since the 1970s. But official statistics includes only crimes that were reported. Evidence that includes estimates on unreported crime actually show a decrease in crime overall since a high point in the mid-1980s.

this handy comparison by Nationmaster is also quite revealing on gun crime. There's probably one on knife crime but I can't find it offhand. NM also has us in third place for crime overall (here) so it's not all rosy (but it's not nearly as apocalyptic as people seem to think it is).

Off the top of my head, I seem to remember we're quite high up for specific offenses (I think assault was one but that's just from memory).

[Oneeyedvic]

What have we done to this country?

We have improved our technology and have improved our media infrastructure.

40 years ago, the way most people knew what was going was through newspapers and radio.

Now, there are lots of competitors and more media than ever before. This means that people can get a far better picture of the country rather than just their local area.

As Kromovaracun states, crime statistics haven't changed that much - what has changed is that people are more aware of it.

[tigerlily11]

Well It's time to bring home the army and get them defending the people of this country instead of the people of other countries.
The police certainly don't seem to be doing the job so get the army back. We need them.

[123everton]

Your singing to choir here VHG (you were'nt very helpful with my quiz question though!) what were seeing is the end of the Liberal society (thank God) we've given it a right good go and it has'nt worked.
They're introducing "stop and search" or as it used to be known "suss", the Home Secretary says she wants the Police to knock on the doors of known offenders and check their road tax and T.V licence etc or as we used to call it "Police harrassment" we need it and more of it. I'd sooner have to put with half a dozen surly Coppers than 1 mouthy scally.
The last 2 weeks all I've had is bother with d1ckhead after d1ckhead after d1ckhead, everywhere you look in this country there's an under current, a sneering level of casual violence. We need jail sentances (and lots of em) the bleeding hearts say "jail does'nt work", it bl00dy works for me,
If you have a spot of bother, you're gonna tell your friends etc, if, at the end of it they get jail you've been vindicated.
Victims matter.

[123everton]

There's been another murder today in a bakers in South East London a boy (16) called Jimmy Mitzen, when's it going to end?

[Rtaxron]

tigerlily11,

Its not the army's job to control the yobs and violence that's going on in the UK, but maybe if the government gave the the police more power and the courts stopped the soft sentencing that's given to these kids, it might work.
The stupid asbo law is not working, community service is not working, the yobs just take the p1ss.
The government don't give a sh1t about you, me and the rest of the good people.
They have their eyes closed and ignore the problems that we have to put up with, where we live as they never experience it, and don't see the problems.

And what really annoys me is, that they get well paid for doing nothing.

[Kromovaracun]

the Home Secretary says she wants the Police to knock on the doors of known offenders and check their road tax and T.V licence etc or as we used to call it "Police harrassment" we need it and more of it.

The current laws essentially give the police powers to 'stop and search' on the basis of suspected activity. Frankly, I don't trust the police (or the government) to operate on suspicion.

We need jail sentances (and lots of em)

Which is exactly the kind of sentiment that has resulted in mass overcrowding (and contributed to weaker sentencing). But hey, I guess that's 'Liberal Society' for ya.

bleeding hearts say "jail does'nt work", it bl00dy works for me,

Well, gee, I guess we don't base our judicial policies on what works for you. There's a shocker.

[anotheoldgit]

Most of the problems stem from the utopian attitude that we can all live in a multi cultural sociaty, but It just does not work.

One can see daily the change in the ethnic white teenagers. See how they walk in that swinging manner of the Caribbean/African, the tram line hair styles and the rap music they have also adopted.

It is not hard to realise that the Gang culture is also beginning to rub off on them?

[Supernick]

Kind of sounds exactly like multi-culturalism working to me AOG? Not a clash, but cultures adopting traits and trends from each other...

[123everton]

AOG my future wife's Chinese a finer lady I've yet to meet.
It's not the brown faces that I do battle with reguarly in work.
Kromovaracun I deal with the Police quite often and I see the indifference that one or two of the others have alluded too.
I also see gangs of youths walking round, the other evening with sticks, clubs a huge dog and God alone knows what else, and guess what no sign of the Police despit my telling them what was happening and a local business before me.
Prison works because once they're inside they're not creating victims outside. Overcrowding? Build more.
The Police are all we've got like it or not it's down to them to sort this problem.
It's a democratic system we live under, when policy starts to reflect the views of the people it will change, we're starting to see that change.
I'm curious as to your solution and even more as to your ideas for implementation.

[Kromovaracun]

I'll respond later once I have a few minutes (and have done a little digging).