School siege again

[LeedsRhinos]

Surely this was a massive own goal by the Chechyan (sp?) freedom fighters where as anyone who might have been symathetic to the their cause would surely turn against them after the slaughter of innocent children?

[EliPledge]

WHJ - I suggest that you stop suggesting that I, or anyone else, keeps quiet - how dare you! And throwing Hitler at me doesn't perturb me in the least: where's your democracy got us!

[EliPledge]

Saffstar - you think militant Islam isn't hell-bent on a third world war as it is? The question is who's going to win?

[saffstar]

So we should just hurry things along should we? I'm sorry, but I don't think that the only answer is to give these monsters what they want.

[EliPledge]

Not what they want, saffstar, what they deserve - they're relying on the decency of most Westerners ( as demonstrated by the willingness of a lot of people on this board to understand them), I'm sure they know about the Nazi bogey that's thrown at any white person who dares to raise any criticism of non-whites. I note that when there were debates on the board on the issue of race a couple of weeks back, nobody - as I recall - said that whilst not condoning the BNP et al, they understood them and the only solution was to negotiate with them.

[el duerino]

latest figures from amnesty international indicate that around 500'000 people, MAINLY CIVILIANS, have been killed through russian actions in chechnya. tell me elipledge, you would launch massive action AGAINST WHOM? then i will illustrate why you are mistaken. thanks

[EliPledge]

el duerino, You will illustrate why i am "mistaken" -who the hell are you??? Frankly, if any single Chechen was incinerated today I wouldn't lose a minute's sleep over it - I'm just being honest - couldn't give a toss! None of your (plural) "let's negotiate" posts have any chance of bringing an end to Islamic terror - the declared aim is to establish a Global Caliphate. And as I've asked before, would you all have advocated negotiation with the Nazis - like hell you would! That was a "just war" to the liberals wasn't it?

[el duerino]

im the person who will illustrate how you are mistaken. now answer the question or stop rabbiting on about nazis.

[EliPledge]

I'll "rabbit" on about Nazis if I like Oh Great Democrat. Well since we're on the topic of Chechen child-killers, isn't it obvious I'm talking about exterminating Eskimoes???

[el duerino]

great point. you obviously have a clue what you're on about.

[LeedsRhinos]

Why not treat Elipledge's stupid answers with the contemp they deserve. A very disturbed individual.

[LeedsRhinos]

contempt

[EliPledge]

Chrisd - hello the "very disturbed individual" here - yes, I am disturbed by the torture and murder of children - why, aren't you mate? Sorry, scratch the "mate" bit - you'd never be a mate of mine. Still thanks for adding to the ongoing debate - I'm sure your contribution has really given food for thought to a lot of people - very probably win some sort of "Post of the Week" award.

[LeedsRhinos]

hmmm

[AB Editor]

Users, these kinds of topics inevitably cause heated debates - please bear in mind that everyone has a right to their views, and therefore refrain from personal name-calling and insults, as this goes against the spirit of the AnswerBank

[cruthinboy]

Whilst perhaps not going as far as physical liquidation of the Chechen population, I do believe that some people are gravely underestimating and misunderstanding the nature of this 21st century Islamic "Jihad". Negotiations with the IRA/ETA/ANC etc. had a chance of success as these organistaions esentially share the same pluralistic, secular, democratic (as they would see it) ideals as ourselves - the problem was differing interpretations of thsoe ideals. To this extent, I see where ELipledge is coming from with the comparison with Nazis who utterly rejected these ideals in the same way as Al Qaida and its associates do; and, no, indeed very few people would have advocated negotiations with the NAzis or indeed so-called Neo Nazis nowadays. As the Nazis believed that the "RAcial Imperative" allowed them to kill anybody who didn't "fit in", so the ""Religious Imperative" allows the islamists to do similar. I fear there will be a lot more bloodshed in the future, and ultimately it will come down to victor and vanquished and not to a historic compromise.

[el duerino]

so how do you beat fundamentalist terrorism? more guns? blow them up? people are not understanding the issues here. Violence WILL become self perpetuating in this situation. Remove their support, alienate them from allies, cut off their money, find and keep track of suspected ringleaders, reduce contributing social factors such as perceived racial and religious intolerance towards ethnic and muslim communities, any or all of these suggestions would be effective, much more so than nailing the odd kidnapper/bomber. Terrorism will not and will never be stopped with violence given our current level of technology. I do not advocate negotiation and compromise, nor do I advocate violence. The movement which will destroy these terrorists will come from their own organisations, and THAT is where our resources must be channelled.

[cruthinboy]

I really do believe that this secular West v Islam conflict is going to "go the whole way" if you'll pardon such a crass expression. It really doesn't take much money to make a deadly bomb - look at the bombs teh IRA made out of sugar/weedkillers etc. - thankfully they gave warnings, though often inadequate or imprecise. I fear that many on this board who have laudably fair-minded, cool-headed views on the situation may find those views coming under increased strain in the future.

[saffstar]

Very well put el duerino. cruthinboy, you probably don't mean to, but I think you sound a little condascending. I have read pretty widely on the subject of Islamic terrorism and I think I understand it relatively well. I don't actually have particulary 'cool-headed' views on this, and I don't think I underestimate the threat posed either. This war is never going to be won by bombs and guns alone - all that does is generate more terrorists from a generation of increasingly angry young men. The tactics el duerino described seem, to me, to be our best bet and we need more decent, moderate Muslims and their leaders to start shouting about the atrocities that are being commited in their name. I hope we've seen the start of that this week with the comments from Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, the general manager of Al- Arabiya news channel. I'm under no illusions that this could end up as all out war, nor am I in favour of negotiating with terrorists, but I firmly believe that there are other avenues open to us, at least for the time being.

[cruthinboy]

Sorry if I appered condescending, saffstar. I was actually trying to move the debate on from the sterile, slanging match it had descended in to - I will be less condescending then and say that those who suggest negotiation/ cutting off finances etc. as solutionsare completely deluded and/or naive. Like you I have studied terrorism for a long time: from your studies, you must agree that the nature of terrorism has changed dramatically from the "armed propagnada" of the IRA to mass - for want of a more extreme adjective - murder. Did you or anyone really believe, even after the horrors of Dar es Salaam and NAirobi, on to 911, that terrorists would deliberatle target children - not callously accept them as collateral damage - but deliberately target them - and film them like some kind of vile paedophile snuff movie?

[EliPledge]

Cruthinboy: I'd leave it mate: you can't argue with a liberal - you're "condescending". I'm a "disturbed individual". We'll see what happens when the Uk'* ***.