american justice

[stokemaveric]

watched the neil entwhistle trial on the news,tv coverage of the murder trial,and then a family impact statement read to the killer by the victims family after the verdict.should we do that here in the uk?or would that sensationalise and prompt would be murderers to claim morbid noteriety?

[bazwillrun]

as for the guilty party, most of them are scum so it wouldnt move them one bit.

If the judges need it to pass sentence then they are not fit to judge, they have just listened to all the evidence, if they dont understand the impact of the crime on the victims familes, friends etc then they arent up to the job.

For once though at least the USA shows the way when it comes to dishing out sentences, life means life with no parole, none of this human rights bullschit

[stokemaveric]

i totally agree...pity he didnt do the crime in another state...he would be meeting his maker soon then.....

[Barmaid]

We do do that here. When prosecuting one is often provided with a victim personal statement which is read to the court as part of the sentencing exercise. For instance, in the Steve Wright trial (the murder of the 5 women in Ipswich) some of the families had done VPS's which were read in court.

[stokemaveric]

what i meant barmaid is that the actual vps as it is known here [thank you for enlightening me] is read out by actual family members to the perpratrator of the crime and that the actual trial is shown on tv....

[Barmaid]

Sorry, I misunderstood. Take your point about the trial being televised. families can read out the statements though if they wish.

[shammydodger]

imo no. Justice is supposed to be impartial and without prejudice. By their very nature, "victim impact statements" are anything but. I would be very surprised if the vast majority of US judges are actually moved to modify the sentence imposed on the basis of "victim impact statements."

And I don't understand the l;ast sentence of your question in relation to the rest of it.

[New Judge]

Justice is not supposed to be impartial once a defendant has been convicted, shammydodger.

It is the job of the sentencing judge or magistrates to impose a suitable sentence which will fit the crime committed and, to a lesser degree, one which will be relevant to the offender. In order to do this it is necessary for them to know the impact that the particular events had upon the victim.

To say that judges are not up to the job if they do not realise the impact the crime had upon the victim is somewhat naive, bazwillrun.The same crime can have vastly different effects on victims and it is necessary for the sentencing tribunal to know about the individual circumstances.

As Barmaid said, Victim Impact Statements are read in court after conviction (though by the prosecutor, not the victim). They are not prepared as often as judges and magistrates would like, but where they are provided they play a vital role in the sentencing process.

[andy-hughes]

I am uncomfortable with the notion of these statements having any bearing on sentences - it infers that the better written the statement is, the more harsh the sentence could potentially be.

Where does that go? Do we have professional Statement Writers advertising in the small ads.? Does the more articulate victim influence a harsher sentence than the victim who is denied a voice through lack of articulation of their loss?

The part of the statement read out by the family of Mrs Entwhistle where the concept of images forzen in time when other new photographs replace older ones, was heartbreaking, but should Entwhistle suffer a harsher or lesser punishment because of it?

I suggest they can be read to the court when the sentence is delivered, if it gives the families of victims some comfort, but for that reason, and no other.

[Quinlad]

Further to Andy's point, I don't quite understand the logic of these statements.

If two people commit two identical crimes, and:

- one kills someone whose mother is highly emotional and very expressive
- and the other kills someone whose mother simply isn't as upset

...does/should one be punished more than the other?

The immorality/evil of what they have done is absolutely the same. The behaviour of a surviving relative seems to come down to pure chance.

Then again, I guess it all comes back to the 'purpose of punishment' debate again - and the relative emphasis you place on incapacitation, deterrence, retribution, restoration, rehabilitation.

[anotheoldgit]

Will the Foreign Office apply to the US for Neil Entwhistle to serve his sentence in a British jail?

[puddicat]

It pains me to watch his mother protest ! i have 2 sons but would have to accept the evidence against them,why oh why do parents grasp at straws and make out that the poor wife was depressed and killed herself and her baby,it was cold and calulating on his part long may he suffer!!!!!

[shammydodger]

anotheoldgit
Fri 27/06/08
16:33 Will the Foreign Office apply to the US for Neil Entwhistle to serve his sentence in a British jail

The short answer to that is "No."

I am always amazed at the number of people who are so willing to pass judgement in court cases when they have not been part of the jury. A huge part of the judicial process, particularly in America, is concerned with selecting an "impartial" jury.

Oh I can't be bothered to continue. Obviously. everybody who posts on here has been privvy to all the evidence and is completely impartial.

[anotheoldgit]

High up in the Foreign Office are we, shammy?

[andy-hughes]

No, I am ot privvy to the evidence shammy, that's why I confined my response to answering the Question asked, which did not refer to the evidence either.

The Question was about statements, not wethter the accused was guilty or not.

[Barmaid]

Yes New Judge, generally it is the prosecutor that reads a VIS out. Although in a couple of reasonably large murder trials I have followed, the Judge has allowed family members to read out previously disclosed statements. I have also seen it in the Magistrates court where the Mags have invited "victims" to address the court. Although granted this is rare.