ChatterBank52 mins ago
Licence to kill
27 Answers
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-103944 5/Erin-Pizzey-champion-womens-rights-says-radi cal-feminist-plans-let-victims-domestic-abuse- away-murder-affront-morality.html
Are Women now to be given a licence to kill?
Rather than reducing violence, Harriet Harman's proposals could become a charter for domestic chaos, as vengeful women believe they can butcher partners they come to loathe, inventing incidents of abuse or exaggerating fears of assault.
Harriot Harman, is the Minister for Women who recently introduced an 'Equality Bill', which actually proposed to give legal sanction to overt discrimination against men in job recruitment.
Who is the Minister for Men? We certainly need one, just ask the "Justice for Fathers" campaigners for example.
Are Women now to be given a licence to kill?
Rather than reducing violence, Harriet Harman's proposals could become a charter for domestic chaos, as vengeful women believe they can butcher partners they come to loathe, inventing incidents of abuse or exaggerating fears of assault.
Harriot Harman, is the Minister for Women who recently introduced an 'Equality Bill', which actually proposed to give legal sanction to overt discrimination against men in job recruitment.
Who is the Minister for Men? We certainly need one, just ask the "Justice for Fathers" campaigners for example.
Answers
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I was quite surprised by the homicide figures for both men and women. For every 100 men who murder their wife 30 women are equally likely to murder their husband for the same reasons. With this new bill it would be a certainty that equality of the sexes will ensue if not tipping the balance. The moral is don't get up to hanky panky with other women.
Erm, this is a law talking about murder and about the murder of a spouse - both male and female.
Currently, if a person who is suffering from domestic abuse murders their partner, they will be charged with murder and treated in exactly the same way as if they went out and murdered a complete stranger.
This is plainly not the same thing.
That is what this law is trying to change - so that a partner who has been "seriously wronged" can use this as part of their defence.
They will still be charged but the minimum sentence terms for murder will not apply.
Currently, if a person who is suffering from domestic abuse murders their partner, they will be charged with murder and treated in exactly the same way as if they went out and murdered a complete stranger.
This is plainly not the same thing.
That is what this law is trying to change - so that a partner who has been "seriously wronged" can use this as part of their defence.
They will still be charged but the minimum sentence terms for murder will not apply.
For every 100 men who murder their wife 30 women are equally likely to murder their husband for the same reasons.
I have read through the article, and I cannot find the statistic you have provided us with rov, have you a link?
I can only provide these figures from the article.
Home Office research shows 5 per cent of men are acquitted in domestic violence cases. Meanwhile, 22 per cent of women get off.
Certain crime studies show that while one in four women has suffered from abuse, one in six men has also done so.
In the refuge I opened in 1971, for example, of the first 100 women through the door, 62 admitted that they had also perpetrated violence against their partners.
These were taken from the article written by Erin Pizzey, champion of Women's rights.
I have read through the article, and I cannot find the statistic you have provided us with rov, have you a link?
I can only provide these figures from the article.
Home Office research shows 5 per cent of men are acquitted in domestic violence cases. Meanwhile, 22 per cent of women get off.
Certain crime studies show that while one in four women has suffered from abuse, one in six men has also done so.
In the refuge I opened in 1971, for example, of the first 100 women through the door, 62 admitted that they had also perpetrated violence against their partners.
These were taken from the article written by Erin Pizzey, champion of Women's rights.
It should also be pointed out that this has been on the cards for a while:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7140916.stm
The Ministry of Justice has revealed further details of the first major shake-up of murder laws in England and Wales for more than 50 years.
Justice minister Maria Eagle said the government would be consulting legal experts on reforming how certain defences are used in murder trials.
It follows a Law Commission report which urged murder to be reclassified to reflect levels of seriousness.
The Home Office announced plans for a full review of murder in 2004.
'Clear and fair'
Ms Eagle said the government remained committed to retaining the mandatory life sentence for murder but that the review would look at specific aspects of law "to ensure that it protects the public and provides appropriate levels of punishment for those found guilty".
"The law needs to be clear and fair so that people have confidence in the criminal justice system," she said.
"We want to have an open and inclusive debate on the issues before we bring forward firm proposals on how the law should be reformed."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7140916.stm
The Ministry of Justice has revealed further details of the first major shake-up of murder laws in England and Wales for more than 50 years.
Justice minister Maria Eagle said the government would be consulting legal experts on reforming how certain defences are used in murder trials.
It follows a Law Commission report which urged murder to be reclassified to reflect levels of seriousness.
The Home Office announced plans for a full review of murder in 2004.
'Clear and fair'
Ms Eagle said the government remained committed to retaining the mandatory life sentence for murder but that the review would look at specific aspects of law "to ensure that it protects the public and provides appropriate levels of punishment for those found guilty".
"The law needs to be clear and fair so that people have confidence in the criminal justice system," she said.
"We want to have an open and inclusive debate on the issues before we bring forward firm proposals on how the law should be reformed."
anotheoldgit
We don't need a Ministry For Men.
When we are paid less than women we may need one.
When we cannot walk the streets for fear of being raped and murdered by women, we may need one.
When we make up only 5% of the board of the top 200 FTSE companies, we may need one.
When we become overwhelmingly the victims of domestic violence, we may need one.
Until then, I suggest that the world is overwhelmingly tipped in our favour.
We don't need a Ministry For Men.
When we are paid less than women we may need one.
When we cannot walk the streets for fear of being raped and murdered by women, we may need one.
When we make up only 5% of the board of the top 200 FTSE companies, we may need one.
When we become overwhelmingly the victims of domestic violence, we may need one.
Until then, I suggest that the world is overwhelmingly tipped in our favour.
-- answer removed --
Erin Pizzy has a really nasty habbit of never letting anybody else speak.
I've heard her on two programs now, she makes her point and then talks straight over anyone who dares to raise a dissenting opinion!
She's a very irritating woman
She also thinks that battered women seek out abusive relationships
But that's by the by
I don't think this is the right way of dealing with these cases.
Whatever the provocation it is still murder and people should be charged as such and if found guilty receive the mandatory life sentence.
The place for doing this is to permit this as a mitigating factor when determining the tarrif ( time actually served in prison )
I've heard her on two programs now, she makes her point and then talks straight over anyone who dares to raise a dissenting opinion!
She's a very irritating woman
She also thinks that battered women seek out abusive relationships
But that's by the by
I don't think this is the right way of dealing with these cases.
Whatever the provocation it is still murder and people should be charged as such and if found guilty receive the mandatory life sentence.
The place for doing this is to permit this as a mitigating factor when determining the tarrif ( time actually served in prison )
Harriot Harman states "You can't just kill out of anger and blame the victim"
Isn't this exactly what could now happen to men at the hands of vengeful or just plain evil and manipulative women?
Just how the hell is this fair?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7528652.stm
Isn't this exactly what could now happen to men at the hands of vengeful or just plain evil and manipulative women?
Just how the hell is this fair?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7528652.stm
Why has this turned into a 'battle of the sexes'
This law is nothing about the sex of the perpetrator or the victim - it is about a different type of murder.
In America, they have two different murder charges - Murder One which is premeditated murder, and second degree murder which is for other murders.
This is what this law is about - realising that murder is not always the same and there is a difference between a drug fuelled murder and the murder of a spouse that has been violent.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7530582.stm as an example of spouse murders (including men murdering their wives)
This law is nothing about the sex of the perpetrator or the victim - it is about a different type of murder.
In America, they have two different murder charges - Murder One which is premeditated murder, and second degree murder which is for other murders.
This is what this law is about - realising that murder is not always the same and there is a difference between a drug fuelled murder and the murder of a spouse that has been violent.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7530582.stm as an example of spouse murders (including men murdering their wives)
-- answer removed --
Coming from an idiot such as you kev1 (BRAIN CELL) that is rich.
This is still a free country and I will quote from whichever publication I care.
Never heard of the Sunday Sport, but it is obvious you have, does Daddy and Mummy know you read it under the sheets, when you should be asleep?
While we are talking intellect, may I correct you?
INTELLECTUAL and SUGGEST.
Please may I suggest, you should be studying a dictionary instead of the Sunday Sport, before entering into an adult debate?
This is still a free country and I will quote from whichever publication I care.
Never heard of the Sunday Sport, but it is obvious you have, does Daddy and Mummy know you read it under the sheets, when you should be asleep?
While we are talking intellect, may I correct you?
INTELLECTUAL and SUGGEST.
Please may I suggest, you should be studying a dictionary instead of the Sunday Sport, before entering into an adult debate?
Just to answer you, Quinlad.
My last 5 posts have been about,
1/ The Goverment, 6 answers to date.
2/ Women, 17 answers to date.
3/ The Left, 32 answers to date.
4/ The Muslims, 11 answers to date.
5/ Now for this I used a Independent newspaper link, for an experiment, and guess what? Only 3 answers to date, so back to the good old Daily Mail.
Number 3 post seems to be the most popular, I wonder why?
My last 5 posts have been about,
1/ The Goverment, 6 answers to date.
2/ Women, 17 answers to date.
3/ The Left, 32 answers to date.
4/ The Muslims, 11 answers to date.
5/ Now for this I used a Independent newspaper link, for an experiment, and guess what? Only 3 answers to date, so back to the good old Daily Mail.
Number 3 post seems to be the most popular, I wonder why?
AOG, you've used links to the times and independent on numerous occasions before, with a very high response (I can't really be bothered to find them but look back on your profile). The reason nobody responded to your more recent one was because I think the subject was one people don't tend to know as much about or at least be as entrenched in their beliefs as with your usual subjects. Also note that your Muslim one (for which a DM link was used) wasn't exactly a buzzing hive of activity.
Onto the subject of this question...
I don't really see the problem with the proposal. It's just hysterical rhetoric to proclaim it a license to kill - all the law proposes is recognising that someone who kills their abusive spouse is not the same as, say, walking into your neighbour's house and garroting him for whatever reason. The proposal doesn't excuse killing any more than having a separate penalty for manslaughter does. Plus I sincerely doubt all the spouses unfortunate enough to experience abuse read this and then leap for joy and think 'Yippee! Choppy Time!'
Sorry. I'm in a bit of a flippant mood.
I think the author's misconstrued it - they've taken a lot of the arguments surrounding greater options for abused spouses generally and imposed them on this situation, then countered them. I really don't think the idea of the law is to give them the opportunity to pre-emptively kill their partners, it's just a recognition that it's different.
Harman isn't just Minister for Women and Equality (though I don't see why 'Minister for Equality can't suffice but there you go), she's also leader of the House of Commons.
Onto the subject of this question...
I don't really see the problem with the proposal. It's just hysterical rhetoric to proclaim it a license to kill - all the law proposes is recognising that someone who kills their abusive spouse is not the same as, say, walking into your neighbour's house and garroting him for whatever reason. The proposal doesn't excuse killing any more than having a separate penalty for manslaughter does. Plus I sincerely doubt all the spouses unfortunate enough to experience abuse read this and then leap for joy and think 'Yippee! Choppy Time!'
Sorry. I'm in a bit of a flippant mood.
I think the author's misconstrued it - they've taken a lot of the arguments surrounding greater options for abused spouses generally and imposed them on this situation, then countered them. I really don't think the idea of the law is to give them the opportunity to pre-emptively kill their partners, it's just a recognition that it's different.
Harman isn't just Minister for Women and Equality (though I don't see why 'Minister for Equality can't suffice but there you go), she's also leader of the House of Commons.
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