ChatterBank28 mins ago
We're now paying the price
29 Answers
Can anyone really be surprised that our teenagers and young adults have turned out they way that they have? We're now reaping the rewards of experiments implemented years ago. I know that at the time they weren't intended as such, but as they were scrapped, that's all they were.
Remember how the way arithmetic and English teaching methods were changed, then changed back again because it just didn't work? Then we had and still have the nanny state advising us against the dangers of corporal punishment. Didn't do poor little Baby P any good did it?
So now we have hoards of illiterate and innumerate youngers, hardly able to complete their housing benefit claim form whose attitude is distinctly arrogant and hostile as they've grown up being able to do exactly as they please.
Children are having babies almost as a fashion accessory, their parents being those of the 'experiment' age not having the sense to advise against it, and neither will they when their babies grow up, and so it will continue and multiply.
Remember how the way arithmetic and English teaching methods were changed, then changed back again because it just didn't work? Then we had and still have the nanny state advising us against the dangers of corporal punishment. Didn't do poor little Baby P any good did it?
So now we have hoards of illiterate and innumerate youngers, hardly able to complete their housing benefit claim form whose attitude is distinctly arrogant and hostile as they've grown up being able to do exactly as they please.
Children are having babies almost as a fashion accessory, their parents being those of the 'experiment' age not having the sense to advise against it, and neither will they when their babies grow up, and so it will continue and multiply.
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sp ort/sailing/article5162663.ece
http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/3850461 .Devizes_teenager_fights_back_for_award_nomina tion/
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/ 914717?UserKey=
Shall I continue with links to prize winning British teenagers or would it get boring?
As for educational methods I was educated through these in the 70's.
I became a nuclear physicist - do you fancy a maths contest?
http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/3850461 .Devizes_teenager_fights_back_for_award_nomina tion/
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/ 914717?UserKey=
Shall I continue with links to prize winning British teenagers or would it get boring?
As for educational methods I was educated through these in the 70's.
I became a nuclear physicist - do you fancy a maths contest?
Actually the one big factor in underachieving kids is their parents bagging the system. Kids who are encouraged about school by their parents being interested in their education will perform well under any system.
"Little Johny isn't doing well. Yeah it is the cr@p school system. " Little Johny decides school doesn't matter much. The kid and the parents make a pact that underachieving is the rewarded outcome.
As for "distincly arrogant and hostile". The OP demonstrates the style admirably. The blame is clearly laid at the school but teachers cannot bring up the kids on their own particularly when parents prefer to back the kids' right to rebellion.
She is right about the problem with the stupid outbreeding the responsible. This has driven the cycle of the rise and fall of civilisations for milennia.
"Little Johny isn't doing well. Yeah it is the cr@p school system. " Little Johny decides school doesn't matter much. The kid and the parents make a pact that underachieving is the rewarded outcome.
As for "distincly arrogant and hostile". The OP demonstrates the style admirably. The blame is clearly laid at the school but teachers cannot bring up the kids on their own particularly when parents prefer to back the kids' right to rebellion.
She is right about the problem with the stupid outbreeding the responsible. This has driven the cycle of the rise and fall of civilisations for milennia.
Point is I clearly remember all this from 30 years ago:
Kids these days...liberal education changes...Hell in a hand basket...etc
There's plenty of similar stuff about loose morals and boys with long hair, lazy youths in Roman texts - and not just before the decline of the Roman Empire either!
I have no doubt I'll hear it in 30 years from a later generation too.
Poor parenting is nothing new either!
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Willia m_Hogarth_-_Gin_Lane.jpg
I think it says more about the
Kids these days...liberal education changes...Hell in a hand basket...etc
There's plenty of similar stuff about loose morals and boys with long hair, lazy youths in Roman texts - and not just before the decline of the Roman Empire either!
I have no doubt I'll hear it in 30 years from a later generation too.
Poor parenting is nothing new either!
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Willia m_Hogarth_-_Gin_Lane.jpg
I think it says more about the
-- answer removed --
I was educated through the 70's. Admittedly I didn't achieve much except bringing up 3 well behaved children who all recieved love, care and attention. I have 4 children and one is off the rails. I can only say the abuse of a rather horrid father contributed to that.
But the other 3 are hard working individuals who are as exsaperated with their generation as any one else is including their brother.
By the way I am currently studying for and English Degree.
I already have several pass in others areas including IT and math.
It won't do me any good mind. people only want to employ youngsters.
But the other 3 are hard working individuals who are as exsaperated with their generation as any one else is including their brother.
By the way I am currently studying for and English Degree.
I already have several pass in others areas including IT and math.
It won't do me any good mind. people only want to employ youngsters.
One of the problems is adults don't trust kids & visa versa.
eg. A friend of mine lives in a cul-de-sac near a stables yard, as it's free of traffic kids play on the street. It is also a short-cut to a bridle way, & riders have been told not to use it as poses danger to the children playing.
A group of riders come down the road, & my friend told them to go back & grabbed hold of the lead horses' bridle to turn it round. The group went back, although they weren't very happy. Within an hour the police were knocking on his door. They were going to arrest him...The girl on the lead horse had accused him of sexually assaulting her!! Luckily, he'd got plenty of witnesses & nothing more was said, although he reported it to the stables & she was kicked-out. He then had the worry of a vendetta against him, by her, or her parents. He's vowed never to intervene again......would you?
eg. A friend of mine lives in a cul-de-sac near a stables yard, as it's free of traffic kids play on the street. It is also a short-cut to a bridle way, & riders have been told not to use it as poses danger to the children playing.
A group of riders come down the road, & my friend told them to go back & grabbed hold of the lead horses' bridle to turn it round. The group went back, although they weren't very happy. Within an hour the police were knocking on his door. They were going to arrest him...The girl on the lead horse had accused him of sexually assaulting her!! Luckily, he'd got plenty of witnesses & nothing more was said, although he reported it to the stables & she was kicked-out. He then had the worry of a vendetta against him, by her, or her parents. He's vowed never to intervene again......would you?
Carrust, to ask someone to turn around and not use the path/road is one thing, but to grab the reigns of a potentially dangerous and unpredictable animal whilst a person is on it seems somewhat irresponsible. Would he have jumped through a car window to grab someone�s steering wheel as well, if it was a motor car?
No just that I'm personally a prime example.
The number of older generation people I hear who say things like "Oh I don't do maths" is a joke.
Then they turn around and say things like "kids these days can't spell"
The hypocrisy is breathtaking!
As for being part of the problem - you haven't shown there is one yet.
Do please tell us which particular golden age you hark back to - are you a "things were better in the 60's" case or do you hark back to before the war to an era you scarecly recall?
The number of older generation people I hear who say things like "Oh I don't do maths" is a joke.
Then they turn around and say things like "kids these days can't spell"
The hypocrisy is breathtaking!
As for being part of the problem - you haven't shown there is one yet.
Do please tell us which particular golden age you hark back to - are you a "things were better in the 60's" case or do you hark back to before the war to an era you scarecly recall?
Baby P died due to systematic and sadistic abuse, not corporal punishment, what that child suffered from goes beyond the realms and remit of any comprehension and should not be mentioned in the same breath as corporal punishment.
I'm 37 years old, and the problems that are being referred to began when I was in Secondary School.
1 High rate of teenaged pregnancies, when I was in school such things were almost unheard of (1 girl in my year got pregnant at 16) back then having a child so young brought the cry of "you've ruined your life" when actually they just had to find a decent partner. The "solution" was implemented and all manner of iniatives were launched in the mid 80s all of a sudden having a child whilst still a child proved advantageous, extra personal tuition etc.
2 Spellin (sic) lat 80s te teacher's union said that poor spelling and grammar should not detract from an exam mark, a prominent Tory M.P (an ex teacher himself) of the time protested quite vociferously but he was shouted down by the people of the "enlightenment" he was the right man for the wrong time because he looked Amos Brierley and sounded like something out of a Dickens novel.
Contd.
I'm 37 years old, and the problems that are being referred to began when I was in Secondary School.
1 High rate of teenaged pregnancies, when I was in school such things were almost unheard of (1 girl in my year got pregnant at 16) back then having a child so young brought the cry of "you've ruined your life" when actually they just had to find a decent partner. The "solution" was implemented and all manner of iniatives were launched in the mid 80s all of a sudden having a child whilst still a child proved advantageous, extra personal tuition etc.
2 Spellin (sic) lat 80s te teacher's union said that poor spelling and grammar should not detract from an exam mark, a prominent Tory M.P (an ex teacher himself) of the time protested quite vociferously but he was shouted down by the people of the "enlightenment" he was the right man for the wrong time because he looked Amos Brierley and sounded like something out of a Dickens novel.
Contd.
3 Distrust, Childline has done a lot of good work for abused children (the bullied also) but at the time (and even Esther Rantzen agrees) it tended to demonise all men as potential abusers, there was a saying amongst wimmin's groups at the time that "all men are potential rapists", this was nonsense 99% of men would never harm a child, only the other week we were talking in the canteen about lost children ad how I'd be more afraid if I found a lost child then they'd be and then the "Tonight" drew the sam conclusion later on.
4 Violence, a few years back a lad of about 15 years old was causing trouble a man stood up to him the man was 5 foot 3 and like a puff of wind the lad was about 6 foot 2 and about 13 stone the boy stuck his chin out "hit me" he said "I'll be crying all the way to the hospital" I had to separate them I've also had to make a statement to the Police another time over something similar when the boy had done an act of criminal damage.
5 Vendettas, this is the biggy you have a probem with a gang and they target you, just move, it's not worth it, Police won't do a thing unless you react to them and then the full weight of the law will be upon you.
I feel it's a little unfair to produce examples from the bad old days, the consensus amongst the poor and working class (or vicious semi-criminal as they were sometimes described) was betterment, they valued education, they wanted education not charity.
The big difference in childen now is that they are thieves, rich or poor they'll rob you give half a chance, I knew a few would do a bit of shop lifting but kids these days will cheerfully rob anyone of anything.
4 Violence, a few years back a lad of about 15 years old was causing trouble a man stood up to him the man was 5 foot 3 and like a puff of wind the lad was about 6 foot 2 and about 13 stone the boy stuck his chin out "hit me" he said "I'll be crying all the way to the hospital" I had to separate them I've also had to make a statement to the Police another time over something similar when the boy had done an act of criminal damage.
5 Vendettas, this is the biggy you have a probem with a gang and they target you, just move, it's not worth it, Police won't do a thing unless you react to them and then the full weight of the law will be upon you.
I feel it's a little unfair to produce examples from the bad old days, the consensus amongst the poor and working class (or vicious semi-criminal as they were sometimes described) was betterment, they valued education, they wanted education not charity.
The big difference in childen now is that they are thieves, rich or poor they'll rob you give half a chance, I knew a few would do a bit of shop lifting but kids these days will cheerfully rob anyone of anything.
JTP, feel free to nit pick.
I work with the public, I deal with more people in one day (around 500 when I can be bothered to count) than most people do in a week or a month, I'm out on the streets at all hours of the day and night, most every day and night all over the city and have been for almost 20 years and I've seen some sights in that time.
What I'm trying to stress here is that kids will steal from PEOPLE now which was unheard of in my day nobody I knew (and I was no saint) would have dreamt of doing such a thing, what I'm trying to stress is you can have kids who are wealthy who'll rob you because they can, because they want to, because they know if they get caught nothing will happen and more than anything else because it's fun.
If you wish to disregard my experiences, then that's up to you, I would'nt like to accuse you of having your head in the sand but....
I work with the public, I deal with more people in one day (around 500 when I can be bothered to count) than most people do in a week or a month, I'm out on the streets at all hours of the day and night, most every day and night all over the city and have been for almost 20 years and I've seen some sights in that time.
What I'm trying to stress here is that kids will steal from PEOPLE now which was unheard of in my day nobody I knew (and I was no saint) would have dreamt of doing such a thing, what I'm trying to stress is you can have kids who are wealthy who'll rob you because they can, because they want to, because they know if they get caught nothing will happen and more than anything else because it's fun.
If you wish to disregard my experiences, then that's up to you, I would'nt like to accuse you of having your head in the sand but....
-- answer removed --
Thanks for your contribution everton. Mine was merely an opinion but you and your experiences have been able to put some meat on the bones. And JTP, you do wear protective clothing - don't you? You admit to being educated in the 70s and by an accident of birth you know hold a degree, but that only emphasises how low the standards were and they're still falling.
As for a maths contest - I'd love one, any time. I'm a senior lecturer in Mathematics and Statistical Studies.
As for a maths contest - I'd love one, any time. I'm a senior lecturer in Mathematics and Statistical Studies.
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