Disesablishment

[chinadog]

Just read the news on Labour wanting to disatablish The Church Of England. Think it will come to anything?

[naomi24]

Do you have a link?

[jake-the-peg]

Well I certainly hope so.

Mind you it's not just Labour - the archbishop of Canterbury is known to be generally pro disestablishment.

Blair didn't have the guts to convert to Catholicism whilst he was PM and that could have started the ball rolling.

A Catholic PM selecting church of England Bishops - that would have been a sight

[Ethel]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/rel igion/3868700/Labour-MPs-back-separation-of-st ate-and-Church-of-England.html

[naomi24]

I think it will happen.

[voltr4m4x]

I have personally argued the case FOR disestablishment over several years - and, sadly, have fallen foul of some of my local clergy as a result - My case is based on the fact that in 1987 the Church of England "lost" some �850m on ill-advised investments. This was money donated by church members over many years but is now lost for all time, and the books were never examined as to the causes for the loss. My second point concerns the 1701 Act of Succession which clearly discriminates against Roman Catholics, despite the fact that they may be Christian themselves, in that those members of the Royal Family, who would otherwise be in line to succeed to the throne, are debarred from marrying a Roman Catholic - a rule laid down in terms of the constitution which facilitated the whim of Henry VIII. My third point concerns the fact that the Archbishop of Canterbury is selected for appointment by those members of the House of Lords, some of whom may not even be of any religious faith.

I have other issues too which so far remain unanswered by the authorities but on which history may well judge. And that concerns the truth behind the detaining of Terry Waite in 1987 as a hostage in the Lebanon. Terry Waite was employed as special envoy to the Archbishop of Canterbury at the time (Dr. Robert Runcie) and it has been suggested that there may have been contact with the Israelis concerning some hitherto "unexplained issues".

[Quizmonster]

This is a sort of West Lothian Question in reverse and I do not recall anyone ever raising that aspect when the former was all the rage a few months ago!
Why should English bishops have seats - and votes - in the House of Lords and the right to make laws which affect the whole of the UK? Why isn't there a corresponding raft of senior members of the Synod of the Kirk of Scotland and similar representatives from Wales and Northern Ireland with the same rights?
Given the above irregularity and the fact that it is haemorrhaging members anyway, it could scarcely be more obvious that the C of E should be disestablished or at least removed from any political power.

[jake-the-peg]

I think it's hard to argue against disestablishment.

With the Church of England attracting less than a million people to church on an average Sunday (less than 2% of the population) how can they claim to represent the population of this country?

Remember they have bishops sitting in the house of Lords making judgements on how the country is run!

And from their side of the fence the government gets to interfere in their affairs.

Prince Charles doesn't like it either - he made a statement about wanting to be the defender of the faiths (plural) and got slapped down pretty fast.

It really is a situation that just doesn't work any more.

I suspect that many are just waiting for the queen to die to make the jump but maybe patiance is running thin.

[anotheoldgit]

Can well believe it Labour have disestablished most things that are English.

Do any of you who wish to see the disestablishment of the Church of England realise what religion is waiting in the wings to move into the void thus created?

But then perhaps, if you are not female, or homosexual etc. you may think yourself safe.

"BUT I WOULD NOT COUNT ON IT"

[Quinlad]

All the more reason to keep religion and government separate.

[jake-the-peg]

Now I've heard it all!

Are you really suggesting that Islam would become the established religion of the UK.

I've heard of paranoid dillusion but that's psychotic!

[youngmafbog]

Jake, I was thinking of writing " I'll remind you of this when it happens", but then of course this site wont exist as the few remaining freedoms Noo labour do permit us will be removed.

If you think it really could not ever happen then you are a binkered fool.

[Quinlad]

And asylum seekers carry a new form of AIDS which lowers house prices.

[jake-the-peg]

Lead by who YMB? the notorious presbyterian islamist Gorden Brown?

You are well into the world of fantasy here!

But go on entertain us.

Tell us how you think it could happen so we're not blinkered any more.

a/ The CofE is disestablished and becomes independant.

b/ What now? someone proposes making Islam the official religion of the UK and there's a parliamentry vote that passes by a narrow majority because we can't bear to be without a state religion?

Or are you expecting an invasion of Saudi forces leading an armed overthrow of the UK?

Perhaps a massed demonstration of muslims calling for it and Gorden Brown addresses the nation and says "Oh go on then what the heck?"

what a strange little paranoid fantasy world.

Never mind have a nice mid-winter holiday anyway !

[jno]

you won't be able to remind me of it when it happens, youngmafbog, but maybe you could mention it to my my great-great-great-great-great- great (etc) grandchildren. If by then you are too frit to speak up in public, leave a message under the fourth rock from the left in my garden.

[Gormless]

I hope it doesn't. There is a not-so-gradual erosion of traditional values in Noo 21st century Britain, and I believe that a Christian presence must be maintained in the corridors of power, whether the majority like it or not. It's another case of once you've abolished it you'll never get it back. We are fortunate in that the majority of recent Prime Ministers have been committed Christians.

And, yes, there is most certainly another culture/religion that would like to become much more prominent.

[anotheoldgit]

jake-the-peg

You are surely not naive enough to believe that a fanatical religion would let the gang in Westminster stand in their way?

[ruby27]

It is the season for pantomime.

Look out its (Islam) behind you, scream out hundreds of excited children who enjoy the experience of being scared.

However, Christianity a young white man, played by an older woman, just to accentuate the humour of a storyline written for amusement of gullible children....

[Quinlad]

The gang in Westminster and the remaining 97% of the UK population.

I like those odds.

What with the growing appetite for a secular society, there's far less willingness to let religious beliefs infect the political process than there's ever been.

[DrFilth]

Quinlad
Mon 22/12/08
14:01 And asylum seekers carry a new form of AIDS which lowers house prices.

do you have a link for this crap ?

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[Quinlad]

Dr Francis Boyle, speaking at the well-respected MTW forum.