Labour pledges

[rov1200]

Why after having many �bn pumped into the education system, Tony Blair's rant 'education,education,education' and Labour's pleges in the 1987 manifesto to reduce class sizes to less than 30 pupils per class will the policy fail dismally?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8047522.s tm

[Gromit]

Why will the policy fail dismally?

The policy isn't failing dismally. 98% of children are taught in classes of less that 30.

Where this can go wrong, is when a school has its recommended quota of children, and a parent who has been allocated another school, successfully appeals and gets their child into the already full school. Something which the last Tory Government introduced.

[anotheoldgit]

Wake up Gromit and smell the coffee, your excuse doesn't hold water.

Parents do not normally appeal to get their child into already full Infant schools.

This practice generally happens when a parent wants to get their child into a high achieving senior school.

[Gromit]

AOG, you are wrong.

Yesterday's statistics from the Department for Children, Schools and Families showed that the main reasons for giving approval to infant classes of more than 30 was successful appeals by parents over admissions (53.2 per cent of cases) and children arriving mid-term (21.6 per cent). In addition, there has been a bulge in the birth rate with 1,396,830 children in infant classes � compared with 1,367,860 a year ago.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/ed ucation-news/more-than-300-infant-classes-brea k-labours-30pupil-limit-1684578.html

[Gromit]

AOG

You would be forgiven for missing that revealing statistic if you had read it in the Mail which just says

In total, almost 30,000 are taught in classes of 31 or more, because some schools are granted dispensation to flout the limit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-118129 3/Infant-classes-biggest-decade-school-closure s-surge-pupils.html

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

I may be partially wrong regarding my statement <i.Parents do not normally appeal to get their child into already full Infant schools, but I did say 'do not normally'.

But what your Guardian link convenient failed to disclose was other causes for over crowded classes, such as Immigration and the fact that 100 schools a year are closing, as councils bow to Government pressure to save money.

[Gromit]

Well done AOG, I was waiting for you to blame immigration. By the way, it was the Independent not the Guardian.

[Gromit]

"...causes for over crowded classes, such as Immigration and the fact that 100 schools a year are closing..."

In case you hadn't noticed AOG, the birth rate is falling and their are less pupils. That is why schools are closing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/jun/12/polit ics.schools

Classes are being pushed over 30 because parents are exercising their right to appeal and put their children in classes that have already had 30 pupils allocated. A policy introduced by the Tories.

Still, no point in letting the facts get in the way of a good immigration rant and blaming Labour.t

Do you think the Government should repeal the right to appeal school allocation because it is increasing class sizes?.

[rov1200]

Its hard to know who is actually telling the truth but with a falling birth rate and male teachers hard to find in junior schools is it just the tip of the iceberg?

Liberal Democrat children, schools and families spokesman, David Laws, said: "The number of five to seven-year-olds in unacceptably large classes has rocketed over recent years.

"These huge classes make it difficult for teachers to give our youngest children the individual attention they need when they start school. With so many children in a single class, it can be difficult to maintain order and teach effectively.

"The situation risks being even worse next year given the shortage of school places in many parts of the country, particularly in London.

"We know that smaller infant classes can make a real difference and we need to be cutting them to private school levels of only 15."

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

In case you hadn't noticed AOG, the birth rate is falling and their are less pupils. That is why schools are closing

Wrong again Gromit.

Yesterday's figures show a sudden rise in the infant population to nearly 1.4million, from 1.36million.

And there are 310 infant classes larger than 30 - up from 200 last year.

Just because it is hard for you to comprehend, the facts are there to see, and although you accuse me of having an immigration rant, this is also a cause of overcrowded schools, which you amongst others would wish to cover over.

And yes it is Labours fault, who else has been in power for the past 12 years?

Oh! I also noticed you conveniently forgot to paste the words as councils bow to Government pressure to save money. at the end of the fact that 100 schools a year are closing..."

[rov1200]

When I said the birth rate was falling this does not apply to the high immigration and peculier birth rate for these families. It has managed to put the official statistics out of kilter and is probably the main reason for the over subscribed classes.