Ben Kinsella

[Julnar]

Another young life taken by thugs with knives. The killers of Ben Kinsella have been found guilty of murder and no doubt knife crime will be highlighted again, but will we ever understand why young people feel the need to carry knives and when did their paranoia start?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8091 215.stm

[jno]

who is 'we'? If you mean older people - well, they're the ones who have made the world the way it is; younger people just have to live in it. Perhaps 'we' should be looking at ourselves rather than at kids.

[Julnar]

By we, I meant society as a whole jno. Society isn't just made by adults anymore is it? The youngsters of today have a far more influential impact on how we live than in the past. I suppose its to do with the speed of technological advances, of which they seem more in tune with than many adults. Our experience as adults is no longer the stable bedrock of society that it used to be.

[jno]

not really, Julnar. They do have the vote, though I don't suppose they use it any more responsibly than their elders. What they have is money; so adult society panders to them in order to get the money off them, by way of advertising, rubbish TV shows and so on. But I don't think you can really say they make society. Aside from a few media/entertainment types, the most influential people are still those in their 30s or more. These are also the parents who have raised the kids to be the way they are, and they're still the ones who could change things if they wanted.

[BertiWooster]

Julnar - I dont know if you watch any of the programmes that Ross Kemp does , with respect to gangs all over the world .

One reason some gang members and commentators give is that they get drawn into these gangs ( for whatever reason ) ; and once they are in , they cant leave , even though some wish to leave; because of fear from the gang leaders ; having to do as they are commanded .

I suspect that there may be an element of the above , here .

There is also another reason which is that some people may carry these weapons , to protect themselves , as they see it .

There is of course no excuse for unprovoked attacks on anyone not connected with gang activity .

[youngmafbog]

Until parents take their responsibility, aided by the State backing them up not putting obsicles in their path, plus the Courts srt dishing out proper sentences(Wont happen cos jack 'man of' Straw is useless) nothing will chnage.

The Human rights Acts also needs serious amendment or dumping too with authority passed to the parents, teachers and Police.

Mostly down to the failure of Noo Labour of course.

[another-view]

Don't worry. Once the BNP get in and kick these scum out of the country back to their own homes, these gang attacks will stop.

[Julnar]

That's an interesting point about gangs BertiWooster. I suppose peer pressure in gangs is even more difficult to fight against. I do agree with youngmafbof that the deterrants do not seem effective enough at present.

[jno]

Mostly down to the failure of Noo Labour of course.

Ah yes. Let me see, the British Crime Survey gives 2,164,000 violent crime incidents in 2007-8, and 3,593,000 in 1997, after a long period of Tory crime... sorry, Tory rule. In fact it seems to have gone down almost every year since 1997.

waits for youngmafbog to denounce noo labour for cunningly removing every second crime from the statistics

[paraffin]

Julnar:

"....the dererrants(sic) do not seem effective enough at present."

Sorry, mate, which "deterrents" are you referring to? There are none, that's the problem. The only effective deterrent would be the threat of at least some form of corporal punishment, i.e. inflicting physical pain on offenders, otherwise you're simply p*ssing in the wind, to use a technical term.

[aims1202]

It will not stop until the actual root causes are looked at. It makes no difference what the punishment is, they do not care by then. The anger they have ingrained into them to be able to do such a thing must mean they couldnt care less what happens to them. If you grow up without anyone giving a s***, then you dont either. It starts in childhood and yes parents are the ones who should be giving that loving care and positive role models, but its also up to society to help parents of very young children who cant/wont do this. Its the only way to prevent more children growing into violent and dangerous teens/adults. There are things being done but probably not enough and maybe its not reaching those who need it most.