Graduates on the Dole

[rov1200]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8133290.s tm

There are 48 graduates competing for every job on offer. Is this the fault of the English government in encouraging a rate of 50% to enter university?

Many of those graduating have massive debts.

Universities encourage overseas students to apply for courses becuase of the income generated and the number exceed 50% on many courses. When they graduate they are free to enter the UK jobs market without applying for immigration. Does this cause extra problems and should there be 'British jobs for British Graduates"?

[Gromit]

...overseas students when they graduate ... are free to enter the UK jobs market without applying for immigration.

Are you sure that is correct?

I would assume that only foreigners who are allowed here anyway (EU nationals etc) would be allowed to compete without having to apply for permission to work here.

in answer to your question, no, employers should be allowed to choose the best person to employ from all the graduates who are legally here.

Employers should not be forced to employ someone they deem inferior just because they were lucky enough to be born on these islands.

[craft1948]

I think you'll find many of the overseas students have study visas not work permits.....

[paraffin]

Good post, rov, and I certainly would not purport to know the definitive answers.

My observations are directed at exactly what type of graduates are we talking about here? The fact is that there are so many what I would term "mickey mouse" degrees nowadays that I'm more concerned about the calibre of graduate than the fact that so many are still out of work.

Could that be the one of the problems, sorting the wheat from the chaff? Some of them would be better suited to shovelling chips into an old newspaper than applying for some high flying exec post in the City for which they are patently unsuited.

[tamborine]

How do they qualify for the dole?

You have to have been employed, surely?

[sqad617]

Paraffin...LOL...but so, so true.

[Aquagility]

With our school-leavers encouraged to choose between an Honours degree in Hairdressing and a Masters in Computer Gaming (no, not joking), and to run up huge debts in the process, I really feel that many of them are being led by the nose into a Fool's Paradise.

[tamborine]

Honours degree in Hairdressing that's new? Salons traditionally take & train juniors to required stylist standards; the jnrs fulfil background work till they qualify & 'have a column' (their own clientele appointments).

It would not be financially viable to employ a Graduate with a/m degree without a clientele.

[Gromit]

Aquagility / paraffin

the vast majority of degrees are not 'Mickey Mouse', they are worth having, you have to work hard to get them and the reason why students opt for them is that they can expect to be better paid throughout their working lives.

Latest figures from PricewaterhouseCoopers show that the average university graduate earns �160,000 more between the ages of 21 and 60 than someone with A-levels alone.

[jake-the-peg]

As craft points out foreign students have a study visa.

Where do you get the idea from that getting a degree at a British University gives someone the right to work here?

[sqad617]

Gromit....it depends upon what you call "Mickey Mouse" degrees and what you mean by working "hard". Some do and some don't. My definition of a "Mickey Mouse " degree is one in which there is no hope of getting employment because there is no call for that sort of talent. The other factor is that on the whole "Mickey Mouse" degrees are the easiest to enrol in and the easiest to get out of.

I have lost count of the number of parents that I have talked to who describe their offspring as " computer geniuses"
All the polys are now Universities and "graduates pour out into the world with qualifications that very few employes want.

You could see this situation coming "a mile off" as New Labour wanted to show the succes of "Education,education. education"

[paraffin]

Gromit:

Do you always believe statistics, or only use them to somehow support your point of view?

Did Sir Alan Sugar need a degree? Or the dyslexic Sir Richard Branson? Or Sir James Dyson?

[Gromit]

paraffin

Sir James Dyson was a student 1966-70 at the Royal College of Art where he studied Furniture and interior design.

I am sure his qualification (and his college work) on graduating impressed his first employer, Rotork in Bath, he became a director.

'Furniture and interior design' sounds like a 'Mickey Mouse' course, but obviously isn't.

Of course I use statistics to support my view. I agree that statistics can be manipulated so caution should be used when using them, but the one I used seems pretty clear. Are you disputing the statistic that more qualified people tend to be better paid? I thought that was obvious. As PricewaterhouseCoopers had been able to work out a sum, then I thought it would be useful to include it.

[rov1200]

Official government policy:

Foreign students who overstay their visas will not be deported as a matter of routine, the Border and Immigration Agency has admitted.
Agency officials have been told only to take action against those students accused of fraud or corruption

Anyone who has worked with ex-graduates know they finish their degrees and find work without trouble. Some may decide to do a post graduate course though.

[paraffin]

Gromit:

Stop sounding like an MP and just answer. Cut the waffle.
Dyson no more has a degree than the other two.

[Gromit]

rov1200

That memo was issued by the Border and Immigration Agency in 2008 after the agency's chief executive, intervened to halt the deportation of one student because she thought rules were being interpreted overzealously.

The agency said the memo concerned a student who did not have the right visa for technical reasons and that cases of this kind should not be a priority.

The agency are saying that if for technical reasons the student does not have the right Visa, that should not be an automatic deportation, but should be dealt with on merit.

You have interpreted that to say all students can stay after graduation which is completely false.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jan/07 /uk.education

[rov1200]

In the English language student(s) means plural. ie more than 1

[paraffin]

Gromit:

And just for good measure, here are a few more people who've done "all right" without any specific academic qualifications or achievements:

Mohamed Al-Fayed, Simon Cowell, Sir Philip Green, Michael Grade, Sir Michael Caine, Dame Judi Dench, Andy Murray, David Beckham, Kylie Minogue, etc etc etc

My case rests.

[Gromit]

rov1200

The Border and Immigration Agency want to prioritise cases of fraud and corruption. The want to deal with those high priority cases before they deal with cases due to a technicality. That is want the memo means. It was sent out to the agencies employees and was about scheduling the most important cases in front of less important ones. It was issued after one case where the CE had to intervene.

It does not mean all students can stay when they pass their exams. If they do not have a Visa, they cannot work.

[Gromit]

paraffin

You can add Gromit to that list.

Just because some people have done well without a degree does not mean that all degrees are worthless.

It is just one method that employers can use to differentiate between potential employees.

I once met an academic with more letters after her name than a Polish scrabble set but was one of the dimmest people I have ever met.

Likewise, I know of a man who sweeps the streets for a living, but is a brilliant artist.