What are they frightened of?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.timesonlin...nt/article6945445.ece

/// The Government is attempting to stop the Met Office from carrying out the re-examination, arguing that it would be seized upon by climate change sceptics.///

/// Mr Brown told the Guardian: ''With only days to go before Copenhagen we mustn't be distracted by the behind-the-times, anti-science, flat-earth climate sceptics.///

What a cheek.

///'We know the science. We must act now and close the 5billion-tonne gap. That will seal the deal.'///

"Seal the deal" where have I heard that before? Given their track record, why should we believe the politicians?

Now if all the scientists instead of the politicians were having a summit meeting over this issue, then I think the masses would tend to go along more with them.

[LazyGun]

I heard Ed Milliband stating that The Times article was incorrec this morning, and he went on to say that he fully endorsed the Met. Office releasing their data.

I am pretty sure there is very strong scientific representation at Copenhagen.

[anotheoldgit]

/// This is not only because they open the way for those deluded souls who still deny there is a man-made aspect to global warming to press their case with extra vigour,///

//// People who doubt that human activity contributes to global warming are “flat-earthers” and “anti-science”, Gordon Brown has said. ////

"Deluded souls", "Flat-earthers" "Anti science"

Once again get the "Nasty Left" worried in any way and out come the insults, they never fail.

Brown also criticised Cameron for being educated at Eton College, imagine what would have been said if Cameron criticised another for being educated at a comprehensive school?

The multitude of un-washed protesters in London today,

http://i.dailymail.co...005DC-767_468x692.jpg

[rov1200]

I read somewhere that it will take another 3 years to collect all the data again. What a sham? They have fooled most of the people for most of the time, but now this revelation. How are some of the scientists on this site,notably Jake going to live it down? They have stressed time and time again we must listen to our climate scientists and why should we question them. The doubters have been proved right, once again.

[BillyBB]

There used to be a mile thick layer of ice over my house, it is obviously much warmer now.
Give it another 100,000 years and it will be back. Nothing mankind can do about it.
Sadly we have a world full of king canute politicians.

[rov1200]

I think even the sceptics believe the planet is getting warmer but thats not the point. The truth thats being glossed over is the cyclical nature of the climate and we are currently in an upward swing. The climate scientists downplay this.

A US expert non believer said it could cost the country dearly to the tune of $triilions if they decide to take unnecessary action to deal with climate change.

Also if the UK government really believed their own spiel why are they not spending £bns to prop up our sea defences? Its obvious its all done for tax raising measures.

[jake-the-peg]

I don't have a great deal of time to waste with this rot today but lets just take one or two of birdies regurgitated pieces of misinformation

1/ No one can say for sure if temperatures are rising at the moment
- most of you klnow this is rubbish - that climate change is happening - there are accurate measurements showing it and for the innumerate amoungst you - where are all the goddam glaciers going?

4/ yes we know water vapour is the most important greenhouse gas but when its concentration gets too high it is regulated by something we call "rain" - CO2 does not rain out it just keeps going up

5/ nobody says that temperatures did not rise and fall in the past - it's warmer now though than in the medieval period.


OK bored now because I've gone over this so many times before

Just on the off chance you might read something from people who actually know what they're talking about here is the Royal Society's page pulling down all these myths

I think you'll find it cover most of your objections under where it says misleading arguments

http://royalsociety.org/Climate-Change/

I don't for a moment think it will dispell your arrogance of thinking that your common sense is more powerful than the many years of careful trained work of scientists throughout the planet.

How clever you must think you are!

[anotheoldgit]

There's one thing those un-washed have proven by camping out in Trafalgar Square.

It is getting colder at night.

[Quinlad]

Only AOG could criticise the 'nasty left' for using insults and then describe protesters as "unwashed" - in the SAME POST.

The man is a genius.

[Oneeyedvic]

Jake The Peg - from your link - one of the first myth busters:

///It is true that the world has experienced warmer or colder periods in the past without any interference from humans.....
However, in contrast to these climate phases, the increase of three-quarters of a degree centigrade (0.74°C) in average global temperatures that we have seen over the last century is larger than can be accounted for by natural factors alone.////

Amazing - how accurate we are now - .74 degrees in a century.

Do you really think that we were that accurate 100 years ago?

How about 200 years ago. Do you really think that if say the average temperature in 20005 was 20 degrees that the temperate in 1905 was accurately taken at 19.26 degrees?

Still, the Royal Society says its true, so it must be!

[jake-the-peg]

You know birdies list looks remarkably like this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk.../sci/tech/8376286.stm

I wonder why we didn't get the list?

Possibly because the well known counters to it are all listed along side it!

This is the thing about climate change skeptics - no evidence will ever convince them - it is a political and not scientific arguent with them.

This is why they are now being ignored and not being allowed to continually muddy the waters with old arguments that have been countered time and time again.

There is a conspiracy all right - but it is a conspiracy of certain people to desperately try to stop the world taking action on climate change because it affects their profitability - how do they do it? by appealing to the paranoia of the gulible

[Oneeyedvic]

oh, I also like argument 4:

///It is true that in the early 1990s initial estimates of temperatures in the lowest part of the earth's atmosphere, based on measurements taken by satellites and weather balloons, did not mirror the temperature rises seen at the earth's surface. However these discrepancies have been found to be related to problems with how the data was gathered and analysed and have now largely been resolved. ///

Ah, so we got it wrong in the 1990s, but luckily we know for a fact that in the previous century that everything was all okay - otherwise we wouldn't have any comparative data, would we.....

Don't you also love the words 'have now largely been resolved'. So not accurately, but largely sorted. But we know to the .74 degree that we are right!

The more I read about Climate change, the more cynical I become.

[Oneeyedvic]

Jaket - ///This is the thing about climate change skeptics - no evidence will ever convince them - it is a political and not scientific arguent with them. ///


Reverse could be said to be true. This is from your link to the Royal Society:

///It is fair to note that in tropical regions of the world there are still some discrepancies between what computer models lead us to expect regarding temperatures at the surface and in the troposphere and what we actually see. However, these disagreements are within the bounds of the likely remaining errors in the observations and uncertainties in the models.///

So, where as you keep telling us it is a fact, it appears that even the Royal Society will agree that it is not certain.

[Quinlad]

Ignoring the fact that the scientific community, bar a few cranks, has long since agreed on man made climate change, the sceptics positions strikes me as a pointless and reckless stance on the issue.

If in 50 years it turns out the believers are wrong... so what, really? We've recycled, we've cut down on fuel consumption, we've investigated alternative fuels, and - oh please god no - we've paid more 'green taxes'. Boo hoo. Their crime? Naivety.

If in 50 years the deniers are wrong, they've irreversibly obstructed action that could have saved our existing climate, they've ushered in what most credible geophysicists are calling a globally catastrophic level of change. Their crime? Laziness, tight-fistedness, reckless short-termism.

You know what, I'd quite happily be proved wrong on climate change. What have I lost, really? Barely anything. The deniers, if proved wrong, will have f*cked up the world because they're clinging to a niche scientific view and hatching conspiracy theories to avoid doing things differently to how they've always done them. I call that short-sighted. And these people think they're the voice of reason.