Why do people keep saying Brown was not elected...

[R1Geezer]

It just demonstrates how ignorant of our system they are and they probably shouldn't have the vote if they don't understand the system. Here's the news, we do not elect the leader of our country, we elect MP's which ever party ends up with the most forms a governement. The leader of that party is the PM, the leader is elected by the party. Geddit?? Oh and I'm a Tory by the way.

[sherminator]

Wow for once we agree R1!!!

IT bugs the hell out of me but theres an easy response!

when someone says he wasn't elected by us i always say "Well name me a time when you have voted in a prime Minister?"

The vacant look you get is hilarious!

[jackthehat]

I think it has more to do with the (alleged) Granita pact between Blair and Brown. Whenever there has been a change of PM before, it has not been because of an informal agreement between the two parties.
Blair steered New Labour to victory in 1997, 2001 and 2005 largely by force of his personality. Had Brown been at the helm for the 2005 election, there is a perception that he, and the policies he subsequently introduced and the direction he took the party, would NOT have found favour with the electorate.

[R1Geezer]

perhaps jack but in reality the electorate do not elect the PM, the Party does and in this case they elected Brown, knowing all about the alleged pact etc.

[Gromit]

It was a rumour started off by Labour MPs.

[R1Geezer]

lets not turn this into a Granita discussion, thanks

[VHG]

While we dont vote for a PM as such, we all know who the leader of a party is when there is an election, so by voting for that party we KNOW who the PM is going to be.

So in effect, by voting for that party we are endorsing that leader as potential PM.

In the upcoming election if we vote Labour we know Brown will be PM, if we vote Tory we know Cameron will, if we vote LibDem then it will be Clegg and so on.

In fact I have always thought that people vote for the LEADER of the party in a general election much more than the party itself (certainly floating voters).

If people perceive the leader is good they will assume they will manage the country (and the party) much better.

Thatr is why Blair, Thatcher etc got voted in, and Michael Foot, John Major (97) etc did not

[R1Geezer]

yes VHG that's very valid, (Major did win in 92 though). So instead of saying unelected they should say that he just hasn't led a party at a general election yet.

[Gromit]

Douglas Home resigned in 1957 leaving Harold McMillan to become Prime Minister.

Wilson resigned in 1976 leaving Callaghan to become Prime Minister

Thatcher, Major.

It is relatively common for a Prime Minister to be replaced, and unremarkable that Brown is our PM. The whole Brown was not elected charge is spurious and spouted by people who are clueless about how our system of Government works.

[Gromit]

VHG

Do we know who will be Chancellor if the Tories win?

http://www.timesonlin...cs/article7060479.ece

[jackthehat]

Gromit - Can you give me a further example where it (again, allegedly) had been agreed beforehand that the current incumbent would voluntarily step aside in order that his (former ?) mate can have a go...........?

Or indeed where this has been only a perception ?

[R1Geezer]

Ther may have been some sort of agreement jack but in reality there was no guarantee that Brown would win the leadership of the party.

[VHG]

>Douglas Home resigned in 1957 leaving Harold McMillan to become Prime Minister.

Other way round I am afraid.

Harold MacMillan resigned in 1963 and Alec Douglas home took over.

[jackthehat]

The word 'guarantee' did, indeed, become the focus of much spin and anti-spin.

I've noticed the dearth of similar examples, even just 'perceived' ones........

[Gromit]

jackthehat

Got my MacMillan bit mixed up earlier, MacMillan did not make a pact, but manipulated the Party and made sure his successor was Douglas-Home and not Bulter.

Every party leader when trying to get elected by his (or her) Party will wheel and deal. They will do all kinds of deals with their rivals and closest competitors. Do you think George Osborne is Deputy Chancellor on merit, or because he was one of Cameron's backers at leader election time. Cameron will have done a deal with Osborne just as Blair and Brown did.

Brown became Prime Minister because there was no other candidate when the Labour chose its successor to Blair. He ran un-opposed, and won.

[mike11111]

It was Eden who resigned in 1957 to be succeeded by MacMillan. Until Edward Heath in 1965 Tory MPs did not elect their leader. Soundings were taken as to who had most support and the outgoing PM would recommend his successor to the Queen.

[jackthehat]

I say again, the *perception* is that there was a backroom deal between Blair and Brown; which whilst the electorate had, in large part, voted for the personality of Blair, at a point mutually agreed between them, a less popular/populist Brown was foisted upon them.....

[youngmafbog]

I dont recall a vote for Brown to take over the labour party, so - unelected.

[mike11111]

You can only have a vote if there is more than one candidate. Brown was elected unopposed.

[R1Geezer]

A an election does not necessarily involve voting. That only happens when there is opposition, if no one else stands then that persons is still elected.

[ludwig]

There's two parallel worlds we live in geezer. The world of fact and the world of reality.

In the world of fact, what you say is correct.

In the world of reality however, if you're weren't the leader at the time when the election was called, you can't really claim to have been elected as PM. That's what people mean when they say he wasn't elected. Blair was elected by the people, and then shoved out by his party and replaced with the unelected Brown. That's the reality.

It's the same with Brown not being elected as leader of his own party. Election doesn't mean a ballot has to take place - that's fact. But in reality, they didn't hold a ballot because they knew it wouldn't be as unanimous as it might have appeared, so they simple installed him to sidestep a proper election process.