ChatterBank18 mins ago
Tory lurch to the right begins
// Tory Right demands post for Duncan Smith as compensation for Lib Dem deal.
A Cabinet post for Iain Duncan Smith is part of the price the Conservative Right is demanding for compromises needed to secure a deal with the Lib Dems.
David Cameron has been told that he must hand more ministerial jobs to right-wing Tories, including a full Cabinet position for the former Conservative leader.
Mr Cameron has called a meeting of all Tory MPs for 6pm today as he seeks to keep his party together through continuing negotiations with the Liberal Democrats. Yesterday he made a point of opening his Commons office to any Tory MP who wanted to see him, an attempt to counter criticism of a leadership style deemed arrogant and insular by disaffected members of his party. //
Didn't take long. If Clegg and the Labour Party stitch him up, will Cameron get the chop? And would that be a good or a bad thing?
A Cabinet post for Iain Duncan Smith is part of the price the Conservative Right is demanding for compromises needed to secure a deal with the Lib Dems.
David Cameron has been told that he must hand more ministerial jobs to right-wing Tories, including a full Cabinet position for the former Conservative leader.
Mr Cameron has called a meeting of all Tory MPs for 6pm today as he seeks to keep his party together through continuing negotiations with the Liberal Democrats. Yesterday he made a point of opening his Commons office to any Tory MP who wanted to see him, an attempt to counter criticism of a leadership style deemed arrogant and insular by disaffected members of his party. //
Didn't take long. If Clegg and the Labour Party stitch him up, will Cameron get the chop? And would that be a good or a bad thing?
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Hardly surprising is it, the right would see it as a balance vs the liberal left.
Why would Cameron get the chop, he turned the party round massively.
If the lib dems get into bed with labour then watch more of their votes go through the floor at the next general election in 6 months time.
Labour and liberals are not really in a position to form an alliance, they need too many other parties. And, as you pointed out before this next Government will hold a poison chalice.
Why would Cameron get the chop, he turned the party round massively.
If the lib dems get into bed with labour then watch more of their votes go through the floor at the next general election in 6 months time.
Labour and liberals are not really in a position to form an alliance, they need too many other parties. And, as you pointed out before this next Government will hold a poison chalice.
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Cameron has not delivered (yet) a Tory Government, and there are a lot of Tories who do not like the central leaning new Conservative Party. There are already rumblings of dissatisfaction. I suspect the Cameron will lead a minority Government briefly before another election, but if that does not happen, then the party will lurch rightwards and Cameron's position as Party leader would be in doubt.
The Tory Activists aren't happy:
http://www.guardian.c...e-david-cameron-chums
And Lord Ashcroft isn't happy either
http://www.guardian.c...eron-faces-tory-anger
The Tory Activists aren't happy:
http://www.guardian.c...e-david-cameron-chums
And Lord Ashcroft isn't happy either
http://www.guardian.c...eron-faces-tory-anger
-- answer removed --
i think its all a load of codswallop this power sharing business. i think we should have either a system where whoever gets the most votes wins; or if the current system stays in place there should be as many elections as it takes to get the fptp winner. the lead up to the election got boring and now all this wheeling and dealing is starting to look desperate and tacky...like most of the people involved in them! the fact that we do not currently have a governing party is demonstration enough that the system is inherently flawed and needs to change...x
"Changing the system, to presumably pr I suppose you mean ?, will actually mean this happens more and more.
So perhaps enlighten us on what would work ? "
Well pick what you like out of this lot. There are so many ways of running PR, each one as bad as the other. Sooner or later, everybody gets held to ransom and the wishes of the "people" are the last thing on the mind of power crazy politicians. These coalitions fall apart as fast as they form.... remember all the jokes about the French disappearing cabinet.
http://en.wikipedia.o...tional_representation
So perhaps enlighten us on what would work ? "
Well pick what you like out of this lot. There are so many ways of running PR, each one as bad as the other. Sooner or later, everybody gets held to ransom and the wishes of the "people" are the last thing on the mind of power crazy politicians. These coalitions fall apart as fast as they form.... remember all the jokes about the French disappearing cabinet.
http://en.wikipedia.o...tional_representation
The French system is somewhat different Androcles - the President appoints the prime Minister and sacks him when something goes wrong. The president appoints ministers sometimes from different parties to reflect national oppinion.
To our eyes it's all a bit odd but it works
Anyway PR with a president like that works somewhat differently.
Back to the question - I doubt Cameron will get the chop unless there's a lib lab deal which I doubt but even then he'd probably be strong enough.
My personal money is on a minority Tory administration, Brown goes to the Lords, new leader, Milliband perhaps or Ed Balls or Alan Johnson.
New election in 6 months
Most interestingly what if Lib Dems and Labour do a pact and don't stand against each other ?
Could have a lib/lab coalition for Christmas!
Then Cameron would go
To our eyes it's all a bit odd but it works
Anyway PR with a president like that works somewhat differently.
Back to the question - I doubt Cameron will get the chop unless there's a lib lab deal which I doubt but even then he'd probably be strong enough.
My personal money is on a minority Tory administration, Brown goes to the Lords, new leader, Milliband perhaps or Ed Balls or Alan Johnson.
New election in 6 months
Most interestingly what if Lib Dems and Labour do a pact and don't stand against each other ?
Could have a lib/lab coalition for Christmas!
Then Cameron would go
Why is it that countries such as Germany who have PR are very successful? Even the Scots seem able to do it. Yet when it comes to the English many say its unworkable.
Obviously the first past the post does not work in a 3 party state. It must be down to the belligerence of politicians who always think they are right and everyone else is a dumb-bell.
We are sadly lacking in something. We joined the EU too late. We have refused to join the Euro. We get involved in unwinnable wars. Our economy is on a par with the PIGS or even Greece.
Why can't we learn from more successful countries?
Obviously the first past the post does not work in a 3 party state. It must be down to the belligerence of politicians who always think they are right and everyone else is a dumb-bell.
We are sadly lacking in something. We joined the EU too late. We have refused to join the Euro. We get involved in unwinnable wars. Our economy is on a par with the PIGS or even Greece.
Why can't we learn from more successful countries?
The plain fact is that most parties are pragmatic assemblages of more-or-less like-minded individuals who see a bit of internal compromise as the necessary price of getting power. When this assumption fails you either get new splinter parties, like UKIP, or realignment, as happened when the Social Democrats joined up with the Liberals.
The Tories aren't lurching to the right - the right has always been with them - it's just that some of them are making their voices heard as there's no longer any reason to shut up. They can't be accused of mucking up the Conservative chances of getting a majority at the election since thse have already gone west. Exactly the same positioning will be going on within Labour and the Lib Dems - lots of people asking, "What sort of a party are we and what do we truly stand for?"
It is also uncomfortably true that for many people the first past the post system allows them to vote against a party in a way that PR doesn't. 52% of the voting electorate voted against the Conservatives.
The Tories aren't lurching to the right - the right has always been with them - it's just that some of them are making their voices heard as there's no longer any reason to shut up. They can't be accused of mucking up the Conservative chances of getting a majority at the election since thse have already gone west. Exactly the same positioning will be going on within Labour and the Lib Dems - lots of people asking, "What sort of a party are we and what do we truly stand for?"
It is also uncomfortably true that for many people the first past the post system allows them to vote against a party in a way that PR doesn't. 52% of the voting electorate voted against the Conservatives.
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