News2 mins ago
Raoul Moat Manhunt: (Dead or Alive?)
45 Answers
The (literally ongoing) manhunt in Northumbria for alleged killer Raoul Moat looks like it might be coming to a conclusion in the near future?
Would it be better if this guy walks into custody or is taken away in a body bag? Similar overtones here to Whitehaven, Cumbria last month where Derrick Bird went on the rampage.
Even if banged up for, say, 20 years, how could an avowed and vengeful killer who has sworn to kill Police Officers ever be successfully rehabilitated? Why should society pay for his food and board for the rest of his "natural"?
Should we go down the line of the mealy mouthed, muesli munching, bare toed sandal merchants who would undoubtedly see something good in him, or should the Police today adopt the "Rooster Cogburn"(western film) approach upon discovering his whereabouts of "Fill yer hand, ya sonovab!tch"?, and go at him all guns blazing? It might do society a big, big favour?
I'll leave it to you other barrack room lawyers on here to discuss.
Derrick Bird
Would it be better if this guy walks into custody or is taken away in a body bag? Similar overtones here to Whitehaven, Cumbria last month where Derrick Bird went on the rampage.
Even if banged up for, say, 20 years, how could an avowed and vengeful killer who has sworn to kill Police Officers ever be successfully rehabilitated? Why should society pay for his food and board for the rest of his "natural"?
Should we go down the line of the mealy mouthed, muesli munching, bare toed sandal merchants who would undoubtedly see something good in him, or should the Police today adopt the "Rooster Cogburn"(western film) approach upon discovering his whereabouts of "Fill yer hand, ya sonovab!tch"?, and go at him all guns blazing? It might do society a big, big favour?
I'll leave it to you other barrack room lawyers on here to discuss.
Derrick Bird
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Yes Dickie but that's not what the question is about
It's not
*Will* the police be able to take him alive
It's *Should* they take him alive
There's a lot of puerile insults there about sandles and muesli but essentially the suggestion is that the police should provoke a gunfight in order to deliberately kill him.
Thus avoiding one of those awkward trial things that are such a waste of time and money
It's not
*Will* the police be able to take him alive
It's *Should* they take him alive
There's a lot of puerile insults there about sandles and muesli but essentially the suggestion is that the police should provoke a gunfight in order to deliberately kill him.
Thus avoiding one of those awkward trial things that are such a waste of time and money
Here we go again ...
The self-righteous high-ground is getting more and more crowded, but - call me old-fashioned - I still think 'Innocent until proven guilty' is a phrase I'd quite like to hang onto - it's what separates me from the murderous bigots who think that they have a moral right to execute strangers who'se alleged activities are delivered to them in the comfort of their own homes.
The self-righteous high-ground is getting more and more crowded, but - call me old-fashioned - I still think 'Innocent until proven guilty' is a phrase I'd quite like to hang onto - it's what separates me from the murderous bigots who think that they have a moral right to execute strangers who'se alleged activities are delivered to them in the comfort of their own homes.
That's not the question Joe
The question is whether the police should deliberately provoke a gunfight in order to kill him if it's not neccessary in order to save an inconveniant trial and the expense of keeping him.
I seem to be in a minority but I think thats a small step from a state sponsored assassination.
Maybe you'd be happy to have death squads killing accused criminals but I think you'd be in the minority then
The question is whether the police should deliberately provoke a gunfight in order to kill him if it's not neccessary in order to save an inconveniant trial and the expense of keeping him.
I seem to be in a minority but I think thats a small step from a state sponsored assassination.
Maybe you'd be happy to have death squads killing accused criminals but I think you'd be in the minority then
None?
Your point does not in any way contradict what I have said joeluke.
We work on a civilised system of trial by jury, not execution by psychopathic mobs.
Yes,it's easier to simply shoot this man on sight, but as i have banged on many many times in the past - where do you draw the line?
I'm going to pop round to my next-door neighbour when i get in and poke his eyes our with a potato peeler - that'll teach him to stop his cat weeing on my roses!
Your point does not in any way contradict what I have said joeluke.
We work on a civilised system of trial by jury, not execution by psychopathic mobs.
Yes,it's easier to simply shoot this man on sight, but as i have banged on many many times in the past - where do you draw the line?
I'm going to pop round to my next-door neighbour when i get in and poke his eyes our with a potato peeler - that'll teach him to stop his cat weeing on my roses!
of course you would trt
and the next one and the next - until you were hunting down and killing any one accused of a crime
Ever see "A man for all seasons?"
William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
and the next one and the next - until you were hunting down and killing any one accused of a crime
Ever see "A man for all seasons?"
William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
This reminds me of the hunt for police killer Barry Prudom in the 1980's. He hid out in rural Yorkshire and it took nearly 3 weeks to find him. Thankfully although the police shot at him he topped himself. The brother (ex-police) has been shot at a couple of times (and some people moan about good police pensions).
jake,
An extract from a letter purportedly written by Raoul Moat: "I'll keep killing Police until I'm dead".
Does that sound like a man whom the Police could negotiate with? There are many highly trained and experienced armed Officers on the ground there who are responsible and concerned for the safety of the public, AND of themselves.
Should the apparently unlikely scenario happen and Moat gives up without a struggle, then fine, he will be subjected to judicial process. The accounts, information, news reports etc since Saturday have suggested, however, that the opposite is perhaps a more likely outcome which, if the case, would mean him forfeiting his right to be treated in a non violent fashion.
Life ain't always a bowl of cherries, unfortunately. I live in the real world.
An extract from a letter purportedly written by Raoul Moat: "I'll keep killing Police until I'm dead".
Does that sound like a man whom the Police could negotiate with? There are many highly trained and experienced armed Officers on the ground there who are responsible and concerned for the safety of the public, AND of themselves.
Should the apparently unlikely scenario happen and Moat gives up without a struggle, then fine, he will be subjected to judicial process. The accounts, information, news reports etc since Saturday have suggested, however, that the opposite is perhaps a more likely outcome which, if the case, would mean him forfeiting his right to be treated in a non violent fashion.
Life ain't always a bowl of cherries, unfortunately. I live in the real world.
-- answer removed --
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