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Ok ok I know you're all Burqa'd out but...
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Are the french now going to become targets for extremists angered by the new laws?
Are the french now going to become targets for extremists angered by the new laws?
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Also what do you think of this cleric telling women "My Muslim sisters, hold on to your hijab, even if it would cost you your money, education and jobs"
After women have fought so hard to be accepted my equals should a woman give up everything for her beliefs knowing that she could lose her home be imprisoned etc.. Would you hang onto your beliefs by any means necessary or does there come a time where you say ok, ill give this one thing up just to get some peace and get on with my life?
After women have fought so hard to be accepted my equals should a woman give up everything for her beliefs knowing that she could lose her home be imprisoned etc.. Would you hang onto your beliefs by any means necessary or does there come a time where you say ok, ill give this one thing up just to get some peace and get on with my life?
A lot of these traditions/customs are medaeval and not in keeping with forward thinking countries of today, Ok if they live in their own country they can carry on as they wish. But if a non-Muslim lived in a Muslim country they would be thrown in jail if they followed the everyday normal behaviour as an English/American woman, drinking alcohol, dressing fashionably/ provacatively, etc. So when in Rome eh.
It is typical of the clerics to urge the women to flout the French ban, next we will have hysterical females and possibly males burqua wearing it for the hell of it. I think it is ill mannered not to show ones face, it is not a requirement, only for the husband For Funks Sake.
It is typical of the clerics to urge the women to flout the French ban, next we will have hysterical females and possibly males burqua wearing it for the hell of it. I think it is ill mannered not to show ones face, it is not a requirement, only for the husband For Funks Sake.
Probably - but it only serves to demonstrate the arrogance of people who demand the law in a country they've chosen to live in accomodates them personally. If those laws aren't to their liking, there's nothing stopping them moving somewhere that suits them better. (Sits back and waits for the howls of 'injustice'!).
He is hardly inciting extremism by calling for anyone who disagrees with this regressive new law to disobey it.
It is hardly the crime of the century to wear a garment of clothing. A garment that you have probably been wearing all you life, an then someone suddenly decides you cannot wear it.
And when muslim women continue to wear these garments, will they be arrested? Fined? Imprisoned? Just imagine how intolerant that will be look worldwide. Won't do France's image abroad must good.
// but it only serves to demonstrate the arrogance of people who demand the law in a country they've chosen to live in accomodates them personally //
What utter drivel. French law has let them wear what they want all their lives. To then react against a change in that law is not arrogant. They are not demanding the law be changed to accommodate them, they are demanding that the law should have been left alone and not changed.
The law is almost certainly illegal, so the sooner a Muslim woman is prosecuted, the sooner an appeal can be lodged, and the sooner this stupid law can be removed.
It is hardly the crime of the century to wear a garment of clothing. A garment that you have probably been wearing all you life, an then someone suddenly decides you cannot wear it.
And when muslim women continue to wear these garments, will they be arrested? Fined? Imprisoned? Just imagine how intolerant that will be look worldwide. Won't do France's image abroad must good.
// but it only serves to demonstrate the arrogance of people who demand the law in a country they've chosen to live in accomodates them personally //
What utter drivel. French law has let them wear what they want all their lives. To then react against a change in that law is not arrogant. They are not demanding the law be changed to accommodate them, they are demanding that the law should have been left alone and not changed.
The law is almost certainly illegal, so the sooner a Muslim woman is prosecuted, the sooner an appeal can be lodged, and the sooner this stupid law can be removed.
Gromit, they may protest, but laws change and whether you think this particular change is stupid or not, they have to respect it - just as we have to respect changes in our laws. Personally I hope the rest of the western world follows France's example.
Actually, I think it's quite ironic that Ayman al Zawahiri is urging women, as 'female holy warriors' to flout the ban in order to hold on to their true religion in face of France's deviant ideologies, even if that means jeopardising their money, their education and their jobs. Firstly I wonder what they find so attractive about living in a country that espouses what they consider to be deviant ideologies, and secondly, despite all the opportunities now open to these ladies, I can't help feeling that Mr al Zawahiri would prefer them to remain firmly entrenched in the dark ages.
Actually, I think it's quite ironic that Ayman al Zawahiri is urging women, as 'female holy warriors' to flout the ban in order to hold on to their true religion in face of France's deviant ideologies, even if that means jeopardising their money, their education and their jobs. Firstly I wonder what they find so attractive about living in a country that espouses what they consider to be deviant ideologies, and secondly, despite all the opportunities now open to these ladies, I can't help feeling that Mr al Zawahiri would prefer them to remain firmly entrenched in the dark ages.
naomi24
People ignore, flout or do not comply with laws they consider bad, all the time. Which is why we no longer have Community Charge (Poll Tax). Many considered it unfair, so they demonstrated against it, refused to pay it or lobbied their political party to abolish it.
That wasn't arrogant or disrespectful. It is our duty as citizens to guard against bad laws, and do our best to get them revoked.
The first test case in France will result in an embarrassing climb down.
People ignore, flout or do not comply with laws they consider bad, all the time. Which is why we no longer have Community Charge (Poll Tax). Many considered it unfair, so they demonstrated against it, refused to pay it or lobbied their political party to abolish it.
That wasn't arrogant or disrespectful. It is our duty as citizens to guard against bad laws, and do our best to get them revoked.
The first test case in France will result in an embarrassing climb down.
Simple question, do you want to see prisoners of conscience in Britain?
"it only serves to demonstrate the arrogance of people who demand the law in a country they've chosen to live in accomodates them personally. If those laws aren't to their liking, there's nothing stopping them moving somewhere that suits them better" tell that to Rosa Parks and many others, so much for progress.
"it only serves to demonstrate the arrogance of people who demand the law in a country they've chosen to live in accomodates them personally. If those laws aren't to their liking, there's nothing stopping them moving somewhere that suits them better" tell that to Rosa Parks and many others, so much for progress.
OK, Gromit. I presume you’re talking about Human Rights, so how do we ensure that the Human Rights of women who are forced by the men in their lives to shroud themselves beneath burqas or niqabs and have no public voice are protected, and that equality of the sexes is guaranteed?
Why is it generally men here who support the wearing of this outrageously restrictive garment? Do you really think you’re doing these ladies a favour with your stupidly misguided political correctness? I notice very few women here supporting it. I wonder why? I’ve spoken to many of these women and girls on this subject, and I’ve asked you (and Everton) how many you have actually spoken to - but to no avail. However, there was really no need since unless you are a close family member, it would have been impossible for you to speak to any of them simply because they would not speak to you. You may have a couple of Muslim mates, and Everton may carry some of these ladies on his bus, but that doesn’t give either of you an insight into the lives of the women who wear the burqa, not by choice, nor as a political statement, but on the instructions of the men who control them.
continued..
Why is it generally men here who support the wearing of this outrageously restrictive garment? Do you really think you’re doing these ladies a favour with your stupidly misguided political correctness? I notice very few women here supporting it. I wonder why? I’ve spoken to many of these women and girls on this subject, and I’ve asked you (and Everton) how many you have actually spoken to - but to no avail. However, there was really no need since unless you are a close family member, it would have been impossible for you to speak to any of them simply because they would not speak to you. You may have a couple of Muslim mates, and Everton may carry some of these ladies on his bus, but that doesn’t give either of you an insight into the lives of the women who wear the burqa, not by choice, nor as a political statement, but on the instructions of the men who control them.
continued..
..continued
I don’t know if you are aware that the educators and the rule-makers within the Muslim world are men. Women are allowed to teach children only, so what are you actually supporting? Are you sure you know? Well, whatever you think it is, you are certainly doing nothing whatsoever to encourage the liberation, the education, or the integration of these ladies. I want them to integrate into their new lives and to be free to take advantage of their new opportunities, but what hope do they have with men like you helping their backward, bullying, controlling men, to continue to subjugate them? Rather than give free rein to the women who are politically motivated - and some of them are - which is what you are in fact promoting, I’ll champion what the whole of the civilised world should be championing - the voiceless, helpless, underdog.
Perhaps if the law-makers lose this potential test case you talk about, Gromit, France should decree that the husbands/fathers of all burqa/niqab wearing women must also wear them. Now there’s an interesting idea! THEN you’ll see Mr al Zawahiri protesting!!
Everton, why 'Prisoners of Conscience'? There is nothing whatsoever within Islam that dictates that women must be covered from head to toe, so where does 'conscience' come into it - or prisoners for that matter? You're the only person I've ever seen on here who talks about imprisoning these women. I think the penalty for breaking the law is actually a fine.
I don’t know if you are aware that the educators and the rule-makers within the Muslim world are men. Women are allowed to teach children only, so what are you actually supporting? Are you sure you know? Well, whatever you think it is, you are certainly doing nothing whatsoever to encourage the liberation, the education, or the integration of these ladies. I want them to integrate into their new lives and to be free to take advantage of their new opportunities, but what hope do they have with men like you helping their backward, bullying, controlling men, to continue to subjugate them? Rather than give free rein to the women who are politically motivated - and some of them are - which is what you are in fact promoting, I’ll champion what the whole of the civilised world should be championing - the voiceless, helpless, underdog.
Perhaps if the law-makers lose this potential test case you talk about, Gromit, France should decree that the husbands/fathers of all burqa/niqab wearing women must also wear them. Now there’s an interesting idea! THEN you’ll see Mr al Zawahiri protesting!!
Everton, why 'Prisoners of Conscience'? There is nothing whatsoever within Islam that dictates that women must be covered from head to toe, so where does 'conscience' come into it - or prisoners for that matter? You're the only person I've ever seen on here who talks about imprisoning these women. I think the penalty for breaking the law is actually a fine.
Erm, I sincerely hope that you are unaware that the majority of burqa wearers in France are converts and mostly French citizens.
If such a law were to apply here, how many women do you think were born and bred here?
What are they to do?
P.S.
Rosa Parks did "choose" to live in Montgomery, she could have "chosen" to live in the northern states were segregation did not apply.
Can you not see the similarity?
P.P.S.
After the civil war regressive legislation against blacks was removed, black people flourished under the regime especially in the southern states (where they were concentrated, pun intended) but after death of Lincoln his vice president (Andrew Johnson) was something of a Dixie Crat who is largely seen as an opponent to reconstruction and a friend to former confederates.
So to sum up, the law freed the blacks and was then changed to oppress them (and only them) the blacks "respected" that law for over 100 years, so much for progress.....
If such a law were to apply here, how many women do you think were born and bred here?
What are they to do?
P.S.
Rosa Parks did "choose" to live in Montgomery, she could have "chosen" to live in the northern states were segregation did not apply.
Can you not see the similarity?
P.P.S.
After the civil war regressive legislation against blacks was removed, black people flourished under the regime especially in the southern states (where they were concentrated, pun intended) but after death of Lincoln his vice president (Andrew Johnson) was something of a Dixie Crat who is largely seen as an opponent to reconstruction and a friend to former confederates.
So to sum up, the law freed the blacks and was then changed to oppress them (and only them) the blacks "respected" that law for over 100 years, so much for progress.....
Can anyone please tell me where in the Koran it states that women should cover themselves from head to toe? It cannot be set in stone or all the muslim women in the world would have to wear the burqha/niqab and that is patently not the case.
Gromit/Everton/whomsoever I want chapter and verse not some woolly waffling.
Gromit/Everton/whomsoever I want chapter and verse not some woolly waffling.
Everton, firstly, I don't need a lesson in American history. Secondly Rosa Parks was not an immigrant - she did not choose to live in the United States. She was born there, and to analogise her fight for equality with your support for inequality, which is what you are supporting, is an insult to her memory. She stood for justice and freedom - you stand for injustice and suppression. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself for mentioning her name in the same breath as your support for the burqa.
I don't know where you get your information from, but whether women who choose to wear the burqa are converts, French citizens, or otherwise, is irrelevant.
What are they to do? Well, if their ethical code is up to it, which is clearly isn't, they could stop wearing the burqa as a political symbol and start campaigning for freedom for those who are subjugated - just as Rosa Parks did.
I wonder how you feel about the uniform of the Ku Klux Klan? No complaints? Regardless of the injury and injustice caused why deny them the freedom to choose?
As for progress, you call restricting women to the tenets of an ancient, cruel and misogynistic philosophy progress? With friends like you, these ladies certainly don't need enemies. Shame on you!
tigerlelly, it doesn't.
I don't know where you get your information from, but whether women who choose to wear the burqa are converts, French citizens, or otherwise, is irrelevant.
What are they to do? Well, if their ethical code is up to it, which is clearly isn't, they could stop wearing the burqa as a political symbol and start campaigning for freedom for those who are subjugated - just as Rosa Parks did.
I wonder how you feel about the uniform of the Ku Klux Klan? No complaints? Regardless of the injury and injustice caused why deny them the freedom to choose?
As for progress, you call restricting women to the tenets of an ancient, cruel and misogynistic philosophy progress? With friends like you, these ladies certainly don't need enemies. Shame on you!
tigerlelly, it doesn't.
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