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were Iraqis better off under Saddam?
were Iraqis better off under Saddam?
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Well Clannad
apart from the question marks over the veracity of the figures you quoted for iraqi and kurdish deaths which were 'estimated' by people with a vested interest in the invasion and Saddam's overthrow by the west; you also include the iranians killed in the war which was conducted with the encouragement and military support of the USA when Iran was evil empire #1
And for good measure you add an estimate of the children who died as a result of the West's sanctions. What is your explanation for that particular piece of hypocrisy; "lets try and bully someone into doing what suits us best and when they resist we stop medical supplies going in then when lots of children die we can blame the person who resisted us?
Incredible!
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apart from the question marks over the veracity of the figures you quoted for iraqi and kurdish deaths which were 'estimated' by people with a vested interest in the invasion and Saddam's overthrow by the west; you also include the iranians killed in the war which was conducted with the encouragement and military support of the USA when Iran was evil empire #1
And for good measure you add an estimate of the children who died as a result of the West's sanctions. What is your explanation for that particular piece of hypocrisy; "lets try and bully someone into doing what suits us best and when they resist we stop medical supplies going in then when lots of children die we can blame the person who resisted us?
Incredible!
.
///It's bit akin to saying the Germans were better off under Hitler because the country had relative stability after the Weimar Republic, started to prosper and the trains ran on time. ///
Yes they were better off in say 1936 despite the Nazis appalling philosophy.
It was in better shape than 1945 when millions of its people were dead and the country was destroyed.
However, it is a totally different situation in that Nazi expansionism and aggression brought about WW2.
The invasion of Iraq was brought about by Bush's personal vendetta against SH ("he tried to kill my daddy") the Bush clan's dynastic interests in the global petro chemical industry and the opportunity to gain domestic political points by taking on a soft target Arab country post 9-11 when many americans believed SH was actively involved and the only good 'Raghead' was a dead one.
.
Yes they were better off in say 1936 despite the Nazis appalling philosophy.
It was in better shape than 1945 when millions of its people were dead and the country was destroyed.
However, it is a totally different situation in that Nazi expansionism and aggression brought about WW2.
The invasion of Iraq was brought about by Bush's personal vendetta against SH ("he tried to kill my daddy") the Bush clan's dynastic interests in the global petro chemical industry and the opportunity to gain domestic political points by taking on a soft target Arab country post 9-11 when many americans believed SH was actively involved and the only good 'Raghead' was a dead one.
.
Zeuhl...
"The invasion of Iraq was brought about by Bush's personal vendetta "
How true - have you ever seen that conspiracy footage of the 'plane' hitting the pentagon on 9/11???
OH MY GOD>>> if ever there was proof we should question the truth about 9/11 and the people behind it - its that footage.... Fills me with horror that the theories say the US govt killed all their own people to make it look like Iraq /Afghan did it
"The invasion of Iraq was brought about by Bush's personal vendetta "
How true - have you ever seen that conspiracy footage of the 'plane' hitting the pentagon on 9/11???
OH MY GOD>>> if ever there was proof we should question the truth about 9/11 and the people behind it - its that footage.... Fills me with horror that the theories say the US govt killed all their own people to make it look like Iraq /Afghan did it
///I thought Saddam was a tyrant - how can a nation be better off with the tyrant than without him? ///
because many of the people who lived 'under a tyrant' aren't living anywhere now - they are dead!
and the remainder don't have any secure govt now - just chaos and lawlessness
and as quoted in my earlier post, there is a strong likelihood that they will end up with another dictator in the near future because that is the usual fix in these situations.
.
because many of the people who lived 'under a tyrant' aren't living anywhere now - they are dead!
and the remainder don't have any secure govt now - just chaos and lawlessness
and as quoted in my earlier post, there is a strong likelihood that they will end up with another dictator in the near future because that is the usual fix in these situations.
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Nosha
I'm sorry - but what rock have you been living under for the past 9 years?
Saddam Hussein and Iraq have never been seriously accused of involvement in the 9-11 attack on New York and Washington by Saudi members of Al Quaeda. SH in fact had zero tolerance of Al Quaeda going into Iraq, probably on the basis that there is only room for one Boss Gangster in a country.
Not even George W accused SH of involvement in 9-11 once the facts emerged, he simply relied on people who weren't too bothered about distinguishing between one arab and another to infer that attacking one was a way of 'striking back' in his ludicrously labelled 'war on terror' - a catchy slogan for the illiterate.
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I'm sorry - but what rock have you been living under for the past 9 years?
Saddam Hussein and Iraq have never been seriously accused of involvement in the 9-11 attack on New York and Washington by Saudi members of Al Quaeda. SH in fact had zero tolerance of Al Quaeda going into Iraq, probably on the basis that there is only room for one Boss Gangster in a country.
Not even George W accused SH of involvement in 9-11 once the facts emerged, he simply relied on people who weren't too bothered about distinguishing between one arab and another to infer that attacking one was a way of 'striking back' in his ludicrously labelled 'war on terror' - a catchy slogan for the illiterate.
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It's one 'n', Zeuhl, thank you.
I simply posted a reference for the deaths attributed to Sadam not an argument for anything else.
I do find it strange though, that the U.N.'s (not the "West's") food for oil humanitarian program:
"After Saddam invaded Kuwait in 1990, the United Nations barred him from profiting from sales of his country's vast oil supplies. The ban was meant to keep him from rebuilding his military and pursuing a nuclear weapons program. But it also deprived the Iraqi economy of its main export, leading to hunger and deprivation among his people—a condition Saddam both exacerbated (by hoarding what wealth his country did possess) and publicized to win international sympathy. Support for the sanctions gradually eroded, and in 1996 the United Nations created the oil-for-food program, through which Iraq could resume oil sales to pay for humanitarian goods such as food and medicine.
Saddam exploited the renewed oil flow in three ways. First, he simply ignored the sanctions and illegally sold oil to Syria, Turkey, Jordan, and other countries, with no U.N. supervision. These sales furnished him with by far his biggest source of illicit income—about $13.6 billion, according to a Senate subcommittee investigation.
(Contd.)
I simply posted a reference for the deaths attributed to Sadam not an argument for anything else.
I do find it strange though, that the U.N.'s (not the "West's") food for oil humanitarian program:
"After Saddam invaded Kuwait in 1990, the United Nations barred him from profiting from sales of his country's vast oil supplies. The ban was meant to keep him from rebuilding his military and pursuing a nuclear weapons program. But it also deprived the Iraqi economy of its main export, leading to hunger and deprivation among his people—a condition Saddam both exacerbated (by hoarding what wealth his country did possess) and publicized to win international sympathy. Support for the sanctions gradually eroded, and in 1996 the United Nations created the oil-for-food program, through which Iraq could resume oil sales to pay for humanitarian goods such as food and medicine.
Saddam exploited the renewed oil flow in three ways. First, he simply ignored the sanctions and illegally sold oil to Syria, Turkey, Jordan, and other countries, with no U.N. supervision. These sales furnished him with by far his biggest source of illicit income—about $13.6 billion, according to a Senate subcommittee investigation.
(Contd.)
(Contd.)
Second, Saddam and his minions used tricky pricing schemes, surcharges, and kickbacks to milk another $7 billion or more from oil buyers and sellers of humanitarian supplies. These schemes were possible because Saddam had successfully argued at the United Nations that as a sovereign nation, Iraq should be allowed to negotiate contracts directly. Legitimate Iraqi oil profits went to a U.N.-controlled escrow account, but kickbacks were secretly routed by complicit companies to hidden regime bank accounts. Saddam also received kickbacks from goods Iraq purchased with oil money. " (Source "Slate, By Michael Crowley
Updated Friday, Dec. 17, 2004, at 1:30 PM ET).
So, at this late date, were not sure how many men, women and children died of malnutrition, illness and disease due to Saddam's hoarding of millions of petro-dollars. Built magnificint palaces and weapons systems though...
Second, Saddam and his minions used tricky pricing schemes, surcharges, and kickbacks to milk another $7 billion or more from oil buyers and sellers of humanitarian supplies. These schemes were possible because Saddam had successfully argued at the United Nations that as a sovereign nation, Iraq should be allowed to negotiate contracts directly. Legitimate Iraqi oil profits went to a U.N.-controlled escrow account, but kickbacks were secretly routed by complicit companies to hidden regime bank accounts. Saddam also received kickbacks from goods Iraq purchased with oil money. " (Source "Slate, By Michael Crowley
Updated Friday, Dec. 17, 2004, at 1:30 PM ET).
So, at this late date, were not sure how many men, women and children died of malnutrition, illness and disease due to Saddam's hoarding of millions of petro-dollars. Built magnificint palaces and weapons systems though...
The whole situtation just stinks... and the citizens are the victims in this all...
Have you chaps seen the pentagon movie of 9/11?
Scary stuff....
Dubya didnt directly link Iraq to 9/11 - but he was perfectly happy to accept opinions without correcting people when they came to the wrong assumption...
Why were so many influential business people suddenly NOT at work in the twin towers that morning???
What really took the third plane out of the sky?
What hit the pentagon...
If the US govt did this to their own people and their own nation - what makes them any better than someone like Mugabe or Hitler? (a broad analogy I realise!!)
Have you chaps seen the pentagon movie of 9/11?
Scary stuff....
Dubya didnt directly link Iraq to 9/11 - but he was perfectly happy to accept opinions without correcting people when they came to the wrong assumption...
Why were so many influential business people suddenly NOT at work in the twin towers that morning???
What really took the third plane out of the sky?
What hit the pentagon...
If the US govt did this to their own people and their own nation - what makes them any better than someone like Mugabe or Hitler? (a broad analogy I realise!!)
this is part of the movie I have seen several times.. on the pentagon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmP2Vy8K0i0
Though expect you will have seen it before!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmP2Vy8K0i0
Though expect you will have seen it before!
Iraq invaded Kuwait and sanctions were applied. Israel invaded and occupied territories yet their actions are ignored. Why?
There are hundreds of thousands of people who are dead now who would still be alive if the Saddam regime hadn't been overthrown.
There can be no doubt that Iraqis were better off under Saddam.
There are hundreds of thousands of people who are dead now who would still be alive if the Saddam regime hadn't been overthrown.
There can be no doubt that Iraqis were better off under Saddam.
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