High speed rail link, a nation of nimby's or....

[R1Geezer]

... testament to a sensible consultation process. We are always hearing that the French built the TGV in about 6 weeks on double time out of meccano and how wonderful it is. This will take us 10 years of legal wrangling dealing with one obstacle at a time, route changes etc etc. So are those who praise the French just saying they are much better at riding rough shod over the public and presumably they are saying that we should do the same? So should we strengthen the compulsory purchase laws and abolish appeals and push this railway through? Or will they just start the moaning anyway ignoring the legal obstacles?

[LazyGun]

I think the TGV is a pretty cool engineering feat, testament to the commitment of the French Govt, the french public and the engineering / train companies. I think the various High Speed Lines have taken around 4-5 years to build.

GIven that we are physically a smaller country than France, with a correspondingly denser population abutting certain areas of the route, consultation is inevitably going to be a complicated and time consuming process. Despite my own enthusiasm for such projects, questions do have to be asked about the national economic benefit - I haven't really seen a particularly compelling economic case for building such lines, and they will cost billions and inconvenience many with compulsory purchase orders etc.

We should not do anything to dilute the democratic process - Government has far too much power as it is - there should be no question of beefing up compulsory purchase laws etc. Make the economic case, demonstrate the national benefits, and get the public onside.

[Ankou]

they may have got the tgv up and running superfast, but they have spent the subsequent years installing costly acoustic fencing all over france due to years and years of ongoing noise complaints from affected townies and villagers.

a better comparator would be the ltf (lyon to turin) which since funding approval in 2007 will take 6 years to start work on excavations. and this is not without its protests and demonstrations on both sides (italians and french).

[jake-the-peg]

I live about 5 miles from where this will be going and know a few people affected by this. One couple will be about 50 meters from it.

The biggest issue is actually the time that this will take - this 10 years of wrangling will effectively mess up anybody's chance of selling their houses as until it's up and there people will be put off as they won't be able to see whether or by how much the line affects the property.

There are technical issues about compensation of course. If you're right on the line and there's a compulsory purchase that's one thing but you can be outside what is quite a narrow band and lose a fortune off of the value of your house and not be eligable for any compensation.

My understanding of the French build was that they came in with quite a fat cheque book and gave reasonably generous compensation.

That doesn't seem to be what's happening here so it's not surprising that people are kicking up about it.

[R1Geezer]

Good point jake, the French came in with generous compulsory purchases, good idea to speed things through I guess. Do you know if that's the only difference? Is their legal process any less Tortuous than ours? It's not just buying land though, there are still the objectors who I can understand will be miffed when a high speed rail line is now at the bottomg of their once idylic garden. Are we too soft or should they just push it through for the benefit of the masses?

[rojash]

"French built the TGV in about 6 weeks on double time out of meccano"
Well, it's a comfort to know that they resorted to British technology :-)

[jake-the-peg]

Problem is much of the protest is from Tory heartland.

That makes it a political decision - Can Cameron rely on their votes because the seats are safer than you can imagine or will he have "to stuff their mouths with gold" - to steal a phrase from Aneurin Bevan.

And if he does can can he get away with it politically?

Difficult decision especially for a party without an overall majority

[nonomaybe]

I believe that in France if a project is considered to be of National importance or benefit, Planning procedures are simplified and shortened considerably.

[R1Geezer]

leave it out, any changes they don't like they fill the streets of Paris with Tractors or whatever. The French could care less about the national interest!

[rov1200]

This project would have got more support if they had included futuristic trains instead of the TGV which although fast can make a hell of a noise.

What I had in mind was the Maglev train, already in operation in some parts of the world. Not only did we invent the principle with Prof Laithwaitte many years ago but is proved to be quieter and extremely fast.

[rov1200]

Info on the Maglev train

http://science.howstu...ment/maglev-train.htm