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How would you test whether prayer works?
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In a thread below Truthabounds claimed, on very flimsy grounds, that prayer works.. So how would one set up a rigorous double-blind test for the efficacy of prayer? My claim is that the problems are insuperable. Consider:
Assuming that you convene Group A who are going to be prayed for and Group B who are not...what would the prayer concern?
Would you give them all a lottery ticket for the following Saturday and pray for A to win and not pray for B – or pray for B to lose? No, no, some would say, that’s too frivolous, thus breaking the first rule of double-blind testing: that the testers must not decide in advance what will affect the results.
OK, so you pray for some ill people to recover and some not. Is that ethical? How do you ensure that they are all at the same stage of similar illnesses and how long do you allow for natural healing to take place?
How do you ensure that those not prayed for are truly not prayed for? Do you go to the families and friends of Group B and tell them not to pray for their loved ones? And do you issue an edict to all clergy not to have their general prayer for the sick to be issued until further notice?
Look, I’ve just scratched the surface of the problem. Somebody else talk for a minute..
Assuming that you convene Group A who are going to be prayed for and Group B who are not...what would the prayer concern?
Would you give them all a lottery ticket for the following Saturday and pray for A to win and not pray for B – or pray for B to lose? No, no, some would say, that’s too frivolous, thus breaking the first rule of double-blind testing: that the testers must not decide in advance what will affect the results.
OK, so you pray for some ill people to recover and some not. Is that ethical? How do you ensure that they are all at the same stage of similar illnesses and how long do you allow for natural healing to take place?
How do you ensure that those not prayed for are truly not prayed for? Do you go to the families and friends of Group B and tell them not to pray for their loved ones? And do you issue an edict to all clergy not to have their general prayer for the sick to be issued until further notice?
Look, I’ve just scratched the surface of the problem. Somebody else talk for a minute..
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If a group is large enough then any noise causing by some patients being less ill than others will even out. And you don't pray for people not to get better, you don't pray for one group at all and it is the control. And you preferably use folk who have no family or friends to pray for them, but even if there is a little bit of unaccounted for prayer, how much is that going to skew the results anyway. I think you are claiming a larger problem than actually exists.
It would be interesting to conduct a day-by-day survey. How many people pray daily for something specific (and I don't mean winning the National Lottery), and what percentage of those prayers are answered?
Chris' link was interesting. As I read it the first thing that struck me was that if sick people are aware of others praying for them, they may imagine they are far sicker than they thought - and lo and behold, that was a suggestion.
The sight of a priest on a hospital ward can have the same effect. Upon spying an approaching clergyman, I've seen real fear in the eyes of very sick patients.
Chris' link was interesting. As I read it the first thing that struck me was that if sick people are aware of others praying for them, they may imagine they are far sicker than they thought - and lo and behold, that was a suggestion.
The sight of a priest on a hospital ward can have the same effect. Upon spying an approaching clergyman, I've seen real fear in the eyes of very sick patients.
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Chakka – For me the simple way of telling if my prayer worked or not is peace of mind. It may not give me what I wanted but if it gave me peace then that is the sign that my prayer was answered by not being answered the way I wanted it. I will give you an example that I have given here before. A man is driving towards airport where he wanted to catch a flight to sign a multimillion business contract, got stuck in traffic he prayed that he would catch the flight else it would be huge loss. But he could not make to the airport and missed the flight. While driving back with extreme disappointment he heard on the radio the plane he just missed has crashed killing all on board. What would be his reaction now? Should he still believe that why his prayer was not answered or should he be happy that his prayer to catch plane was not heard?
As for someone ill, depending upon their illness, I pray the way Muhammad (pbuh) did. O Allah if life is better for this person then cure him, however if life is a burden upon him then make things easier for him.
Your second last paragraph. Prayer is for everyone. But acceptance is from God. As human we should do whatever we can do including medicine and prayer but then accept what happen as God’s will. Someone once ask Muhammad (pbuh) that how should I rely on God to look after my camel? Shall I tie the camel or shall I leave it lose. Prophet (pbuh) said that you should tie you camel because that ability God has given you.
As for someone ill, depending upon their illness, I pray the way Muhammad (pbuh) did. O Allah if life is better for this person then cure him, however if life is a burden upon him then make things easier for him.
Your second last paragraph. Prayer is for everyone. But acceptance is from God. As human we should do whatever we can do including medicine and prayer but then accept what happen as God’s will. Someone once ask Muhammad (pbuh) that how should I rely on God to look after my camel? Shall I tie the camel or shall I leave it lose. Prophet (pbuh) said that you should tie you camel because that ability God has given you.
I'm sure this test has been done. People in hospital who know they're being prayed for tend to do worse than those that don't.
In the case when some people are prayed for and some aren't but neither group has any idea that anyone's praying let alone whether it's for them or not, there's no difference.
I think it was on QI.
I think the act of prayer serves to comfort the one whose praying, rather than helping the prayee.
In the case when some people are prayed for and some aren't but neither group has any idea that anyone's praying let alone whether it's for them or not, there's no difference.
I think it was on QI.
I think the act of prayer serves to comfort the one whose praying, rather than helping the prayee.
There have been quite a few trials of the efficacy of intercessory prayer. The tendency has been that the more rigorous the trial, the less likely that the results show any benefit of prayer.
And this field itself has had scandals - Interesting isnt it that those religious type who wave the moralising finger at us from their smugly assumed faith based highground often are the worst offenders when it comes to faking results, and quite honestly, outright lying (see IVT chapter)
Wiki has quite a good page on it...
http://en.wikipedia.o...n_intercessory_prayer
And this field itself has had scandals - Interesting isnt it that those religious type who wave the moralising finger at us from their smugly assumed faith based highground often are the worst offenders when it comes to faking results, and quite honestly, outright lying (see IVT chapter)
Wiki has quite a good page on it...
http://en.wikipedia.o...n_intercessory_prayer
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