Sandy Rotary: Games C/D 11Th Jan
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Has anyone scaled a 'brick wall' in their family tree and been surprised at what they've found?
I'd be really interested in hearing other people's tales of how they've got past those notorious family history brick walls that we all come up against from time to time.
The reason is that I'm celebrating having tracked down my great-grandmother's origins after five years of searching for her. It seems that at birth she was registered as Hannah Maria, but the 1851 census enumerator wrote down her name as Ann Maria. She was then baptised about a year later with the name Elizabeth prior to being adopted, the reason probably being the adoptive parents were strict Methodists and Maria was considered a bit too 'Popish'. But after she married, she and her husband John lived with his sister and her husband, another Elizabeth and John, so she changed her name to Sarah to avoid confusion.
Is it any wonder she was so hard to trace with four different names? Does anyone else have any research epics to share?
The reason is that I'm celebrating having tracked down my great-grandmother's origins after five years of searching for her. It seems that at birth she was registered as Hannah Maria, but the 1851 census enumerator wrote down her name as Ann Maria. She was then baptised about a year later with the name Elizabeth prior to being adopted, the reason probably being the adoptive parents were strict Methodists and Maria was considered a bit too 'Popish'. But after she married, she and her husband John lived with his sister and her husband, another Elizabeth and John, so she changed her name to Sarah to avoid confusion.
Is it any wonder she was so hard to trace with four different names? Does anyone else have any research epics to share?
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I tried for ages, without success to find my great-great-grandfathers birth, until I asked for help on GenesReunited, and someone there found him.
On his marriage certificate to my great-great-grandma he was shown as George Womble Curtis................his birth was registered as George Curtis Wombell. His brother was Joseph Curtis Wombell and that never changed.
My uncle was not amused when I told him he was really a Womble.
On his marriage certificate to my great-great-grandma he was shown as George Womble Curtis................his birth was registered as George Curtis Wombell. His brother was Joseph Curtis Wombell and that never changed.
My uncle was not amused when I told him he was really a Womble.
Oh yes. The tales are too long to set down fully, but briefly My Spinster Great Aunt and her sister my Grandmother were illegitimate. Great Aunt was very religious and we had to be on best behaviour on her visits particularly on Sundays,not allowed to play,or really even do anything.Did not know my Grandmother she died young but Great Aunt lived to 99.I was then in my 30's Married with children but still when visiting her felt the need to behave !!! She would have been mortified to know that I uncovered her secret even though it was not her fault.Meanwhile my Husband took great delight in that news until we found out his G Grandfather was a bigamist and went to prison in Scotland although he did eventually legally marry G Grandma. Then I have now discovered a GG Aunt who illegally married her Uncle who was much older than her so that she would inherit his property.So his Family disowned their Father all but 2 who witnessed the Marriage for a share in the conspiracy. But in the Will she was
named as his Spinster Niece by her Maiden name in the end so that it was a legal Will so dont know what that was all about but we have documents to prove it happened. So thats just some of my Family secrets. Such fun .Did all mine through Genes Reunited and new Family contacts made through being a Member.
named as his Spinster Niece by her Maiden name in the end so that it was a legal Will so dont know what that was all about but we have documents to prove it happened. So thats just some of my Family secrets. Such fun .Did all mine through Genes Reunited and new Family contacts made through being a Member.
Craft, you're descended from a Womble - how cool is that! Do you have strange compulsions to pick up litter?
Patsyann - that's quite a saga. I expect illegitimacy was far more common than we think. And probably bigamy as well for that matter.
Thanks for replying, both of you. I wonder what other family secrets will come to light for us all....
Patsyann - that's quite a saga. I expect illegitimacy was far more common than we think. And probably bigamy as well for that matter.
Thanks for replying, both of you. I wonder what other family secrets will come to light for us all....
He really ought to have remembered remembered remembered what Womble Womble Womble he was, Craft,
Ah brick walls; found enough of them but little that was unexpected afterwards. Despite the great efforts by Craft, Dot, and others I still have little to go on regarding my ancestor Eliza Davies. I think in fairness sometimes one hits so many dead ends one has to spend an age away before recovering the enthusiasm to try again.
There was my Grandfather's first wife who for ages looked to be evidence that my Grandfather was a bigamist. She was difficult to trace. I eventually got some help from someone called Jan Bonnett, over in New Zealand where it turned out gradfather's first wife had emigrated. (I had hoped to get some documentation to tie up that loose end but communications suddenly failed and it never happened.) Stopped rumours of Grandfather's first wife being buried in the locked cellar anyway ;-)
Then there was a Grand Uncle that seemed to have disappeared from the records, but it now seems to be a lax clerk and a misrecorded name. Thy can be a trial to find. Interestingly there are folk on the Ancestry site who claim to have knowledge and photos of that part of the family, as they contributed to my forum thread, but none seem to want to offer me copies. They post and then one hears no more.
But surprises ? Regular minor ones, like the family consigned to the workhouse, and the group that turned out to be illegitimate, but nothing too spectacular.
Ah brick walls; found enough of them but little that was unexpected afterwards. Despite the great efforts by Craft, Dot, and others I still have little to go on regarding my ancestor Eliza Davies. I think in fairness sometimes one hits so many dead ends one has to spend an age away before recovering the enthusiasm to try again.
There was my Grandfather's first wife who for ages looked to be evidence that my Grandfather was a bigamist. She was difficult to trace. I eventually got some help from someone called Jan Bonnett, over in New Zealand where it turned out gradfather's first wife had emigrated. (I had hoped to get some documentation to tie up that loose end but communications suddenly failed and it never happened.) Stopped rumours of Grandfather's first wife being buried in the locked cellar anyway ;-)
Then there was a Grand Uncle that seemed to have disappeared from the records, but it now seems to be a lax clerk and a misrecorded name. Thy can be a trial to find. Interestingly there are folk on the Ancestry site who claim to have knowledge and photos of that part of the family, as they contributed to my forum thread, but none seem to want to offer me copies. They post and then one hears no more.
But surprises ? Regular minor ones, like the family consigned to the workhouse, and the group that turned out to be illegitimate, but nothing too spectacular.
I believe divorce was considered shameful, required a culprit, and not easy to get. Easier to just give up and continue as if the marriage never happened. I think the pendulum has now swung the other way and not so many are prepared to make an effort to fix a troubled relationship, but decide they have one life, pack the presernt relationship in and try for another. Strange how society changes over time.
It was only a few years before he died that my Dad told me he had a half-sister. My grandmother threw her out for becoming pregnant. Wicked step-mother or what! My Dad couldn't remember when all this happened.
I searched at St Catherine's House all manner of BMD records with no luck. It was only a couple of years ago when the BMD were available online that I found what must be her death, really quite young. I bought the certificate. The informant was her child, just 21 years of age, who gave only an initial. But enough to track the birth, then the marriage, and birth of the children. There is a blank box on the birth certificate where the father's name should be, but I gather this is quite common.
The amazing thing? Just googling the name of this cousin brought references which lead me to believe the family is living less than 10 miles away. The original events happened over 100 miles away. I'm not at this stage intending to rake up the past and try and make contact. There is bait enough on Ancestry should members of this family decide to trace their history....
All for now, I'll sort out another story later if this thread is still active :)
I searched at St Catherine's House all manner of BMD records with no luck. It was only a couple of years ago when the BMD were available online that I found what must be her death, really quite young. I bought the certificate. The informant was her child, just 21 years of age, who gave only an initial. But enough to track the birth, then the marriage, and birth of the children. There is a blank box on the birth certificate where the father's name should be, but I gather this is quite common.
The amazing thing? Just googling the name of this cousin brought references which lead me to believe the family is living less than 10 miles away. The original events happened over 100 miles away. I'm not at this stage intending to rake up the past and try and make contact. There is bait enough on Ancestry should members of this family decide to trace their history....
All for now, I'll sort out another story later if this thread is still active :)
Rose, I've just read your post - what a harsh life your poor aunt must have had. And how amazing that her descendants might be living so close by! If that were me, I'd probably be scanning every face in the street to look for family resemblances.
Yes please to more stories!
And here's another brick wall tale. As a child my parents told me that one of my g-g-grandfathers was Irish, but when I started to research him, everything suggested that he was Sussex born and bred. I sent off for his marriage certificate, and that had him down as born in Sussex, and when I tried to find out about his father, parish records also suggested he was born in Sussex. I spent several years trying to find out who this mysterious Irishman was, and eventually I asked a professional genealogist to help. It tuned out that g-g-grandad was a Sussex man, but was employed on the Arundel estates of the Duke of Norfolk, who also owned land in Ireland, and who sent a group of his employees to Ireland to help set up a dairy farm in Wexford. So it turned out that g-g-grandad did indeed come over from Ireland, but as a homecoming, not as an immigrant.
It's funny how misinterpreting something you hear as a child can send you on some real wild goose chases.
Yes please to more stories!
And here's another brick wall tale. As a child my parents told me that one of my g-g-grandfathers was Irish, but when I started to research him, everything suggested that he was Sussex born and bred. I sent off for his marriage certificate, and that had him down as born in Sussex, and when I tried to find out about his father, parish records also suggested he was born in Sussex. I spent several years trying to find out who this mysterious Irishman was, and eventually I asked a professional genealogist to help. It tuned out that g-g-grandad was a Sussex man, but was employed on the Arundel estates of the Duke of Norfolk, who also owned land in Ireland, and who sent a group of his employees to Ireland to help set up a dairy farm in Wexford. So it turned out that g-g-grandad did indeed come over from Ireland, but as a homecoming, not as an immigrant.
It's funny how misinterpreting something you hear as a child can send you on some real wild goose chases.
My paternal grandmother (the one in the previous story) was a hoarder of photographs.
Here's the story of one. It shows my mother and father before they were married, my grandmother and another lady. I asked my mother who this lady was.
"She was related somehow to your great-grandmother. Her name was Hilda and she lived in Liverpool. She died about 1960. Her husband's name was Bert, and after Hilda died he went to Australia to live near their two daughters. The daughters were Sheila who married Tony and emigrated about 1959; and Beryl who married (another) Bert and had a daughter Christine, and they all emigrated to Australia."
This had me stuck for years. Again, it was only a couple of years ago when the Census Returns and the BMD Indexes became available online that I was able to make progress with this one. 'Hilda' was my grandmother's second cousin, and so it follows that 'Beryl' and 'Sheila' were my father's third cousins, and 'Christine' in Australia is my fourth cousin.
What surprises me about this episode is that what my mother said, although sketchy, was correct. It was also surprising that the second cousins were still in touch. My great-great-great-grandparents died within a year of each other in the mid 1840s. My great-great-grandfather, the youngest by a big margin, was placed in an orphanage here in the south and his much older brothers moved to Lancashire to work, as the 1851 Census shows.
Here's the story of one. It shows my mother and father before they were married, my grandmother and another lady. I asked my mother who this lady was.
"She was related somehow to your great-grandmother. Her name was Hilda and she lived in Liverpool. She died about 1960. Her husband's name was Bert, and after Hilda died he went to Australia to live near their two daughters. The daughters were Sheila who married Tony and emigrated about 1959; and Beryl who married (another) Bert and had a daughter Christine, and they all emigrated to Australia."
This had me stuck for years. Again, it was only a couple of years ago when the Census Returns and the BMD Indexes became available online that I was able to make progress with this one. 'Hilda' was my grandmother's second cousin, and so it follows that 'Beryl' and 'Sheila' were my father's third cousins, and 'Christine' in Australia is my fourth cousin.
What surprises me about this episode is that what my mother said, although sketchy, was correct. It was also surprising that the second cousins were still in touch. My great-great-great-grandparents died within a year of each other in the mid 1840s. My great-great-grandfather, the youngest by a big margin, was placed in an orphanage here in the south and his much older brothers moved to Lancashire to work, as the 1851 Census shows.
I couldn't find my gg grandmother's death for years. Indeed, there was no sign of her after 1901.
That's probably because she was also a bigamist. Married 3 different men without divorcing my gg grandfather. Eventually found the marriages and her subsequent divorce and legal re-marriage. Obviously she liked wedding cake!
Another brick wall I scaled was a family who I could trace back to about 1780. I could also trace forwards from the early 1500s. problem was, I couldn't link the two. WIth the help of another researcher, I've linked the line right back to 1509.
That's probably because she was also a bigamist. Married 3 different men without divorcing my gg grandfather. Eventually found the marriages and her subsequent divorce and legal re-marriage. Obviously she liked wedding cake!
Another brick wall I scaled was a family who I could trace back to about 1780. I could also trace forwards from the early 1500s. problem was, I couldn't link the two. WIth the help of another researcher, I've linked the line right back to 1509.
Yes, it was parish records. I was lucky enough to have an unusual name in an area which was well recorded and documented (no doubt due to the fact that there was a royal castle in the area). I've also just found 8 wills for the family (some of which are direct ancestors). The earliest one is 1640. There is one dated 1536, but I am not sure of that link yet.
Parish records are great arnt they. My own family tree on my mothers side goes back to 1655. There are some similar names further back, but unfortunately I cant connect them up, and if I cant prove the source, I wont use them. On my fathers side goes back to 1730.
My husbands fathers side 1740 and mothers side 1620
I did a family tree for a work colleague who went back to 1500s
Its a great achievement when you find this
My husbands fathers side 1740 and mothers side 1620
I did a family tree for a work colleague who went back to 1500s
Its a great achievement when you find this
BM, that certainly makes research a lot easier. Most of my family surnames are very common and my ancestors were very unimaginative with forenames. Boys were always John, William, Matthew or Edward, and girls were always Ann, Mary, Jane or Elizabeth. Added to the fact that there was a fair bit of intermarrying on my mum's side in the 19th century, it's a bit of a nightmare at times. It's really encouraging, though, to hear of someone who has done so well with their research.
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