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'Racist' Milwall Fans - Your View?
211 Answers
There has been controversy about the reaction to players 'taking the knee' at a weekend game, where Milwall fans were heard to boo the players involved.
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It appears the FA are investigating the potential for action against the club for the 'racsist actions' of its fans.
Personally, I don't believe that showing your disapproval of an act of support for a social campaign - or a political organisation, depending on your viewpoint, equates to either not supporting that campain / organisation, or to actively advising your support of an opposite point of view.
Put simply, I don't believe that booing 'taking the knee' makes anyone a racist.
It's an assumption that has no basis in reason, and to me, it shows people being far too keen to look at a negative attitude to one behaviour, and ascribe it possessing a negative attitude to another, with no viable connection.
I am not a football fan, and I wouldn't ever boo anyone, or any action in public, but I do strongly dislike the pointless OTT woke-ism and self-righteousness of 'taking the knee' and I believe it has no place in our sports arenas, but if anyone were to accuse me of being a racist for expressing that view, we would be having serious words.
What are your views?
https:/
It appears the FA are investigating the potential for action against the club for the 'racsist actions' of its fans.
Personally, I don't believe that showing your disapproval of an act of support for a social campaign - or a political organisation, depending on your viewpoint, equates to either not supporting that campain / organisation, or to actively advising your support of an opposite point of view.
Put simply, I don't believe that booing 'taking the knee' makes anyone a racist.
It's an assumption that has no basis in reason, and to me, it shows people being far too keen to look at a negative attitude to one behaviour, and ascribe it possessing a negative attitude to another, with no viable connection.
I am not a football fan, and I wouldn't ever boo anyone, or any action in public, but I do strongly dislike the pointless OTT woke-ism and self-righteousness of 'taking the knee' and I believe it has no place in our sports arenas, but if anyone were to accuse me of being a racist for expressing that view, we would be having serious words.
What are your views?
Answers
'Taking the knee' has made the point, and should now stop. Just as we all enthusiastic
22:39 Mon 07th Dec 2020
roy - // but if anyone were to accuse me of being a racist for expressing that view, we would be having serious words.
What are your views? //
My view is that 'taking the knee' is an attention-seeking self-satisfied 'Look at me and how caring and liberal I am ... ' piece of pointless nonsensical theatre for the insecure who want to be noticed.
But more importantly, I am concerned that expressing a perfectly acceptable hostility towards such nonsense means that the person not in step with the woke elite is singled out for being racist, when, as I have said, the two are not connected.
Not supporting the reason for one notification does not automatically indicate a support for the opposite position.
It is still OK to actually think something is stupid and pointless, and register that feeling, without being labeled as a lame-brained bigot into the bargain.
What are your views? //
My view is that 'taking the knee' is an attention-seeking self-satisfied 'Look at me and how caring and liberal I am ... ' piece of pointless nonsensical theatre for the insecure who want to be noticed.
But more importantly, I am concerned that expressing a perfectly acceptable hostility towards such nonsense means that the person not in step with the woke elite is singled out for being racist, when, as I have said, the two are not connected.
Not supporting the reason for one notification does not automatically indicate a support for the opposite position.
It is still OK to actually think something is stupid and pointless, and register that feeling, without being labeled as a lame-brained bigot into the bargain.
I wasn't impressed by the booing, but I am not sure that any response beyond making clear that the club disagrees with the fans' response is appropriate. Personally, I'm sceptical that the fans were booing for high-minded political reasons, but all the same, those reasons could in theory exist.
Still, context also matters, and it's been clear for some time that a vocal subsection of football fans are happy to trot out unambiguously racist stuff -- monkey chants, bananas, all of the usual racist vocabulary, and so on. Seen in that context, how confident can anyone really be that the objection to taking the knee is based on an aversion to alleged radical Marxism among some groups affiliated with the wider BLM movement, as opposed to objecting to any anti-racist display? Is it really even "taking the knee" they are objecting to? Any attempt to express solidarity with what is at its core an anti-racist movement is, I suspect, unlikely to go down well with the "vocal subsection" of fans I spoke of earlier. There is, quite simply, a long way to go in eradicating racism from football, particularly from certain of the fans.
I still remain unsure what more should be done than to express disapproval, though. An investigation that punishes the clubs feels heavy-handed, an expulsion of the relevant fans without at least allowing them to explain their position likewise, and of course criminal charges should be out of the question.
Still, context also matters, and it's been clear for some time that a vocal subsection of football fans are happy to trot out unambiguously racist stuff -- monkey chants, bananas, all of the usual racist vocabulary, and so on. Seen in that context, how confident can anyone really be that the objection to taking the knee is based on an aversion to alleged radical Marxism among some groups affiliated with the wider BLM movement, as opposed to objecting to any anti-racist display? Is it really even "taking the knee" they are objecting to? Any attempt to express solidarity with what is at its core an anti-racist movement is, I suspect, unlikely to go down well with the "vocal subsection" of fans I spoke of earlier. There is, quite simply, a long way to go in eradicating racism from football, particularly from certain of the fans.
I still remain unsure what more should be done than to express disapproval, though. An investigation that punishes the clubs feels heavy-handed, an expulsion of the relevant fans without at least allowing them to explain their position likewise, and of course criminal charges should be out of the question.
roy - // If you posted the above on Twitter you would be called a racist gammon....by thousands of people.
That is now where we are. //
Thanks for clarifying.
No danger of that, every time i think about signing up for Twitter, I find something more satisfying to do - like putting the things in the fridge in alphabetical order ...
That is now where we are. //
Thanks for clarifying.
No danger of that, every time i think about signing up for Twitter, I find something more satisfying to do - like putting the things in the fridge in alphabetical order ...
Oxford Black Lives Matter leader Sasha Johnson's Twitter account.
https:/
https:/
jim - // I wasn't impressed by the booing, but I am not sure that any response beyond making clear that the club disagrees with the fans' response is appropriate. Personally, I'm sceptical that the fans were booing for high-minded political reasons, but all the same, those reasons could in theory exist.
Still, context also matters, and it's been clear for some time that a vocal subsection of football fans are happy to trot out unambiguously racist stuff -- monkey chants, bananas, all of the usual racist vocabulary, and so on. Seen in that context, how confident can anyone really be that the objection to taking the knee is based on an aversion to alleged radical Marxism among some groups affiliated with the wider BLM movement, as opposed to objecting to any anti-racist display? Is it really even "taking the knee" they are objecting to? Any attempt to express solidarity with what is at its core an anti-racist movement is, I suspect, unlikely to go down well with the "vocal subsection" of fans I spoke of earlier. There is, quite simply, a long way to go in eradicating racism from football, particularly from certain of the fans.
I still remain unsure what more should be done than to express disapproval, though. An investigation that punishes the clubs feels heavy-handed, an expulsion of the relevant fans without at least allowing them to explain their position likewise, and of course criminal charges should be out of the question. //
I think you present an excellent argument, but although it may be true that the boo-ers are actually racists who object to support gestures for BLM, it is the automatic assumption that it's the case that I take issue with.
At the core of my point is that assuming hostility towards one point of view automatically indicates support for the opposing point of view is lazy assumption jumping, and deciding, as high-profile individuals like Wayne Rooney have done, and said the same in the public arena, is a danagerous path of predjudice on which to embark, especially if you are trying to wave your right-on ceredentials at people as you go.
Still, context also matters, and it's been clear for some time that a vocal subsection of football fans are happy to trot out unambiguously racist stuff -- monkey chants, bananas, all of the usual racist vocabulary, and so on. Seen in that context, how confident can anyone really be that the objection to taking the knee is based on an aversion to alleged radical Marxism among some groups affiliated with the wider BLM movement, as opposed to objecting to any anti-racist display? Is it really even "taking the knee" they are objecting to? Any attempt to express solidarity with what is at its core an anti-racist movement is, I suspect, unlikely to go down well with the "vocal subsection" of fans I spoke of earlier. There is, quite simply, a long way to go in eradicating racism from football, particularly from certain of the fans.
I still remain unsure what more should be done than to express disapproval, though. An investigation that punishes the clubs feels heavy-handed, an expulsion of the relevant fans without at least allowing them to explain their position likewise, and of course criminal charges should be out of the question. //
I think you present an excellent argument, but although it may be true that the boo-ers are actually racists who object to support gestures for BLM, it is the automatic assumption that it's the case that I take issue with.
At the core of my point is that assuming hostility towards one point of view automatically indicates support for the opposing point of view is lazy assumption jumping, and deciding, as high-profile individuals like Wayne Rooney have done, and said the same in the public arena, is a danagerous path of predjudice on which to embark, especially if you are trying to wave your right-on ceredentials at people as you go.
roy - // Oxford Black Lives Matter leader Sasha Johnson's Twitter account.
https:/
Your link advises that Ms Johnson's account is suspended, so whatever she said, it contravened their Site Rules and it can't be viewed.
https:/
Your link advises that Ms Johnson's account is suspended, so whatever she said, it contravened their Site Rules and it can't be viewed.
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