The Weird Thing About The Irish

[sp1814]

Not sure whether this is an appropriate question for the news section, but here goes...

I've just been out in Covent Garden celebrating St Patrick's Day with a few Irish mates, and a few 'fake Irish mates' (the ones who suddenly discover they have family in Cork who remain dormant for the rest of year)...and something became glaringly obvious..

...the Irish can celebrate St. Patrick's Day and include people like me who is black and sticks a temporary 'O' with an apostrophe onto his surname for and evening to celebrate with them.

Furthermore, looking around the West End of London, I saw black, Scots, Americans, Chinese and Asians celebrating alongside the Irish in the same way that they do with the lefties at the Notting Hill Carnival.

So the question is - can there ever be an inclusive St George's Day, in the same way that the Carnival is, and St Patrick's Day is, and the Mardi Gras is?

Why can't moderate Brits wrestle the idea of a St. George's Day celebration away from the far right?

[jb190281]

I have had many a conversation along these lines with friends, family, and the other half. I am Welsh, other half is English. The Welsh celebrate St Davids Day and are petitioning for it to be a National holiday, but the Irish celebrate their day on a much greater scale. I personally think its a great shame that the patriotism doesnt extend to the English. The english are always keen to back the national football/rugby/whatever sports team, so why do they not extend to celebrate this day in the same way?! Come on English, get your acts together!

[trt]

If they tried to celebrate St Georges Day, it would be stopped because of Health and Safety.!

[ELVIS68]

Ask the councils, they`re the ones who don`t allow the flags for St Georges day to be flown for fear of upsetting the muslims

[trt]

Good answer Elvis.

[cumbrianlad]

The irish have a totally different set up. They have a Bank Holiday for their Saints Day. Poor old St George always gets overlooked. Unfortunately its our local councils atc who have made it difficult to be ENGLISH. We hear all sorts of stories about people being asked to remove St George Crosses for fear of insulting or offending other religions or nationalities. The plain fact is that the ball is in our court. Its up to us. We either sit back and let them erode our glorious history and traditions or we get up on our back legs and start fighting for what is right. NOT TO BE RACIST, JUST TO BE ENGLISH AND PROUD.

[paraffin]

England SHOULD be able to celebrate St George's day in similar fashion to Irish, Welsh and Scots celebrations for their national Saints days.

However, and I've no doubt that this will be controversial, it seems to me that over the years the flag of St George has continually been tarnished by certain factions of the England football team's so-called fans.

These people have not only brought English football into disrepute, they have also, in my opinion, caused a knock-on effect whereby a nation's pride in its national flag has been undermined.

[ELVIS68]

Not a good reason to not celebrate St Georges day though paraffin

[pinktwink]

there is nothing like the irish one of a kind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ELVIS68]

True pinktwink, but he`s asking about the hangers on

[paraffin]

I agree, Elvis, but why is it that the other home nations DO push the boat out but England seems almost blase in comparison?

It's a bit of a mystery because you only have to look at the media hysteria, for example, if England win a cricket match, a rugby match, qualify for the football world cup etc etc.

However, when it comes down to it, it seems like the other home nations knock England into a cocked hat as far as celebrating national Saint's day.

Just something I've always noticed but can't understand why?

[pinktwink]

don't really know much about debate on celebrating georges day but as an outsider Britains history of hooliganism on football matches etc seem to me like the english cant handle their drink!!! no seriously perhaps its safety first

[ELVIS68]

Very true paraffin, the media don`t mind celebrating anything present but anything to do with our history it`s pushed to one side

Schools are the same, they`ll celebrate most ethnic days but fook all on St Georges Day


Still, you can`t complain or you`ll have the race card shoved in your face

[tamborine]

It's only the indiginous population who get clobbered here.

[sp1814]

Some interesting answers here. I think any accusation that celebration of St George's Day is in any way racist could be dealt with quite simply by people inviting their non-White mates along with them. You always see non-Caribbeans at the Notting Hill Carnival. You always see non-Irish out on St. Patrick's Day...

Last night I swear I saw a group of lads, one black, two Chinese and the rest Irish, staggering up Long Acre in Covent Garden singing 'Fairytale of New York'. That's what St. George's Day should be all about. You shouldn't have to be English to join in.

So how do we grab our national flag back?

How did we allow it to be so successfully hijacked by the far right?

[Booldawg]

Any feelings of English patriotism is tarnished with heavy overtones of right wing sentiment amidst heavy criticism from all and sundry. I'd sooner not get involved.

Rather than celebrating St. Georges Day (amidst reminders from non-English that St. George wasnt even English and a violent crusader etc etc) I prefer to celebrate English culture at the Spring fairs, real ale festivals, country fairs complete with Morris dancing, may pole dancing, hog roasts, beer tents and ploughing matches.

There are alot of events organised throughout the year that are quintisentially English without any kind of right wing slur. You're all welcome to come along.

English culture is something to celebrated every day; not just once a year.

[sp1814]

Booldawg,

I see what you're saying. Just like you don't just tell someone you love them only on Valentine's Day...

I still think though that celebrating Englishness on a specific day shouldn't be in any way associated with right wing sentiments.

You can fly the flag during the world cup, at royal weddings and golden jubilees because that's when moderate English are out on the street - if we could nick the general idea of St. George's Day off the extreme right and make it an inclusive event, the tarnished associations of the flag will finally disappear.

I feel a letter to The Independent coming on.

[jake-the-peg]

The Irish have an advantage when it comes to having parties with the whole world.

They don't have a history of sending their soldiers out to every country under the sun.

We don't have picures like this

http://www.chopra.com/files/images/british.jpg

or this

http://static.open.salon.com/files/oliversarmy chapt006pic31228483503.jpg

or especially this

http://blogs.reuters.com/gbu/files/2008/02/har ry400.jpg

With Irish troops

We have a history - an ongoing history - so it's a bit silly to turn around and say "Why doesn't everybody love us?"

[Lil O'lady]

I feel very sad that the far right was allowed in the 1970's to hijack English identity, hijacking the flag and the creating the popular association of nationality with fascism. This also coincided with on the political left the rise of aggressively-applied ideas of political correctness that led to widespread fear of being branded racist / sexist / fascist / meat-eater etc.
But what's the solution now?
If eg a reasonable government tried to ban the misuse of the flag.....you don't need a an Oxford PPE to see how that would go paws up very quickly.

[Kromovaracun]

Last night I swear I saw a group of lads, one black, two Chinese and the rest Irish, staggering up Long Acre in Covent Garden singing 'Fairytale of New York'. That's what St. George's Day should be all about.

You mean getting ******?