ChatterBank1 min ago
Another own goal in Afghanistan
To win in Afghanistan we need to have the support of the local population. Today we have an example of how not to go about that.
Up to 90 people are feared dead and wounded after a Nato air strike hit two fuel tankers stolen by insurgents in northern Afghanistan.
The blast was thought to have burned alive villagers as they gathered to collect fuel from the tankers when one became stuck in a river.
Nato officials insisted the strike had killed a large number of militants, but said they were investigating the reports that civilians had died as well.
The incident is the biggest accusation of civilian deaths since General Stanley McChrystal took charge of Nato-led forces vowing he was more interested in protecting Afghans than hunting the Taliban.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/6136690/Afghanistan-air-strike-on-hijacked-tankers-kills-90.html
Would everyone be better off if we retreated from this folly of a war?
Up to 90 people are feared dead and wounded after a Nato air strike hit two fuel tankers stolen by insurgents in northern Afghanistan.
The blast was thought to have burned alive villagers as they gathered to collect fuel from the tankers when one became stuck in a river.
Nato officials insisted the strike had killed a large number of militants, but said they were investigating the reports that civilians had died as well.
The incident is the biggest accusation of civilian deaths since General Stanley McChrystal took charge of Nato-led forces vowing he was more interested in protecting Afghans than hunting the Taliban.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/6136690/Afghanistan-air-strike-on-hijacked-tankers-kills-90.html
Would everyone be better off if we retreated from this folly of a war?
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Whilst I agree that the sooner we are out of Afghanistan the better for all.
But this is a war situation and it is a sad fact that innocence civilians will be killed alongside the Taliban.
This excerpt was taken from the Daily Mail website:
Kunduz Governor Mohammad Omar also reported 90 dead, but gave no breakdown.
Nato confirmed that there was an airstrike in Kunduz overnight but gave no details. A spokesman said the coalition was investigating the incident.
Omar said the dead included the Taliban commander for several Kunduz districts, Abdur Rahman, several other senior Taliban and four Chechen fighters.
'Abudur Rahman is a very dangerous man,' the governor said. 'I hope that the death of Abdur Rahman will have a positive effect on Kunduz city.'
So the fact remains that if civilians are in a war situation there is every likelihood of some getting killed.
What was the alternative action to take, let the insurgents get away with two tankers of fuel?
I hear no bleatings when the insurgents themselves let off their explosive trucks and cars in crowded markets, killing many civilians also.
But this is a war situation and it is a sad fact that innocence civilians will be killed alongside the Taliban.
This excerpt was taken from the Daily Mail website:
Kunduz Governor Mohammad Omar also reported 90 dead, but gave no breakdown.
Nato confirmed that there was an airstrike in Kunduz overnight but gave no details. A spokesman said the coalition was investigating the incident.
Omar said the dead included the Taliban commander for several Kunduz districts, Abdur Rahman, several other senior Taliban and four Chechen fighters.
'Abudur Rahman is a very dangerous man,' the governor said. 'I hope that the death of Abdur Rahman will have a positive effect on Kunduz city.'
So the fact remains that if civilians are in a war situation there is every likelihood of some getting killed.
What was the alternative action to take, let the insurgents get away with two tankers of fuel?
I hear no bleatings when the insurgents themselves let off their explosive trucks and cars in crowded markets, killing many civilians also.
rov1200
These civilians were gathered around a petrol tanker that had got stuck in a river. Because people had come for a gawp does not mean they were supporting the Taliban.
The purpose of Dresden was to break the morale of the German people. We are supposed to be doing the opposite in Afghanistan (we want them to welcome us).
These civilians were gathered around a petrol tanker that had got stuck in a river. Because people had come for a gawp does not mean they were supporting the Taliban.
The purpose of Dresden was to break the morale of the German people. We are supposed to be doing the opposite in Afghanistan (we want them to welcome us).
The truth is most of the civilians are either the Taliban or their supporters. Cannot be differentiated! Giving the children sweets is not the way to tackle hearts and minds. As with the Germans in WWII all the population are regarded as enemies and trying to draw a line between the two will mean the war will never be won. If we ever leave the Taliban will reassume control so we are just stretching it out. As the war goes on the Taliban have got stronger and stronger and whereas before they had just a few Kalashnikovs they are getting to be more of a fighting force now.
Like the Russians we should concede to the Taliban, give them back their country and let them sort it out. We now have sophisticated weaponry to spy from the air for training camps and these could be bombed when spotted.
Like the Russians we should concede to the Taliban, give them back their country and let them sort it out. We now have sophisticated weaponry to spy from the air for training camps and these could be bombed when spotted.
-- answer removed --
Gromit
These civilians were gathered around a petrol tanker that had got stuck in a river. Because people had come for a gawp does not mean they were supporting the Taliban.
Put yourself in the aircrew position Gromit, at a few thousand feet, how the hell did they know that these were innocent civilians gawping around a couple of fuel tankers, even if the Taliban wore a uniform to distinguish themselves from the civilians (which they don't).
They had orders that some insurgents had pinched a couple of NATO's fuel tankers and to take them out forthwith, job done, end of story.
These civilians were gathered around a petrol tanker that had got stuck in a river. Because people had come for a gawp does not mean they were supporting the Taliban.
Put yourself in the aircrew position Gromit, at a few thousand feet, how the hell did they know that these were innocent civilians gawping around a couple of fuel tankers, even if the Taliban wore a uniform to distinguish themselves from the civilians (which they don't).
They had orders that some insurgents had pinched a couple of NATO's fuel tankers and to take them out forthwith, job done, end of story.
I agree wholeheartedly with what yous say about the support of the civilian population, unfortunately, its not going to happen, but I have a couple of questions about this incident.
1) Which countries pilots were flying the aircraft.
2) I the civilians were gathering around the tanker, the pilot would have seen them, so why did he still fire?.
1) Which countries pilots were flying the aircraft.
2) I the civilians were gathering around the tanker, the pilot would have seen them, so why did he still fire?.
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