Technology1 min ago
Parthenon/elgin Marbles
17 Answers
We had a discussion on here a couple of months ago about how the Marbles should be given back to Greece. Now despite saying they'd never travel, we've lent one to Russia; what ever next?
Surely its time to be gracious and send them home.
http:// www.bbc .co.uk/ news/en tertain ment-ar ts-3034 9730
Surely its time to be gracious and send them home.
http://
Answers
Baldric, we bought them from an occupying power. It's a bit like buying art looted by Germany during the war: there's a legal case for saying they owned it, having taken it by force of arms; but there's a moral case, stronger in my view, for saying it was stolen from its true owners.
13:04 Sun 07th Dec 2014
I'm absolutely in full agreement with Mikey (readers please take note!! :-) )
Whilst, in the early 19th Century, there may have been a case to "grant asylum" to the stones to ensure their safety (and that is somewhat debateable) there is no justification for them to remain in the UK now. If they can be packed up and moved to Russia they can be repacked and returned to Greece forthwith.
Whilst, in the early 19th Century, there may have been a case to "grant asylum" to the stones to ensure their safety (and that is somewhat debateable) there is no justification for them to remain in the UK now. If they can be packed up and moved to Russia they can be repacked and returned to Greece forthwith.
According to this we own them
http://
///Following a public debate in Parliament[13] and the subsequent exoneration of Elgin, the marbles were purchased by the British government in 1816 and were passed to the British Museum,[14] where they stand now on display in the purpose-built Duveen Gallery.///
Yes we should return the marbles to Greece as they were effectively stolen in the first place. The British govt may have purchased them in the 19th Century, but they presumably did not do so from Greece.
Having said that, the Greeks have never formally requested their return: they have used the issue for political posturing, much as Spain does over Gibraltar, although admittedly in their case with more justification.
It is also not true to say that Britain has said they would never be loaned out. It was simply that no one had ever asked. They claim they would lend them to Greece only there is no likelihood they would be returned.
Meanwhile I see no reason why a single statue should not be loaned to the Hermitage. It's pretty high profile, so presumably there is little chance of the Russians stealing it and offering it to a FIFA delegate as a bribe, as happened with other Hermitage artefacts during the World Cup bid
Having said that, the Greeks have never formally requested their return: they have used the issue for political posturing, much as Spain does over Gibraltar, although admittedly in their case with more justification.
It is also not true to say that Britain has said they would never be loaned out. It was simply that no one had ever asked. They claim they would lend them to Greece only there is no likelihood they would be returned.
Meanwhile I see no reason why a single statue should not be loaned to the Hermitage. It's pretty high profile, so presumably there is little chance of the Russians stealing it and offering it to a FIFA delegate as a bribe, as happened with other Hermitage artefacts during the World Cup bid
"...much as Spain does over Gibraltar, although admittedly in their case with more justification. "
As has been said, the Marbles were sold to Britain by an occupying power (the Ottomans). Gibraltar, however, was ceded to Britain by the Kingdom of Castile (a title still held by the current King of Spain) in perpetuity (not until Spain got fed up with the idea) as part of the settlement that was the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713.
To suggest that Spain has a legitimate claim on Gibraltar is rather like saying I have a legitimate claim to the family silver I sold when I was hard up.
As has been said, the Marbles were sold to Britain by an occupying power (the Ottomans). Gibraltar, however, was ceded to Britain by the Kingdom of Castile (a title still held by the current King of Spain) in perpetuity (not until Spain got fed up with the idea) as part of the settlement that was the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713.
To suggest that Spain has a legitimate claim on Gibraltar is rather like saying I have a legitimate claim to the family silver I sold when I was hard up.
"To suggest that Spain has a legitimate claim on Gibraltar is rather like saying I have a legitimate claim to the family silver I sold when I was hard up. "
I don't think anyone was suggesting that, least of all me. I was comparing the political posturing of Greece and Spain, while contrasting their respective justification (i.e. Greece has a point, Spain does not) The Greeks have made no serious efforts to have the marbles returned (such as writing to the museum and asking) just as Spain has never made a serious attempt to reclaim Gibraltar
I don't think anyone was suggesting that, least of all me. I was comparing the political posturing of Greece and Spain, while contrasting their respective justification (i.e. Greece has a point, Spain does not) The Greeks have made no serious efforts to have the marbles returned (such as writing to the museum and asking) just as Spain has never made a serious attempt to reclaim Gibraltar
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