How Much Longer Will The World Continue To Finance Ukraine?

[youngmafbog]

OK, I’m probably going to get a lot of flak for this, but I feel it is a question that needs considering (And no I don’t have an answer).

Like it or not there is growing resentment that so much money is being spent on arms and military equipment for Ukraine whilst we all struggle under mountains of debt.  Add to that the ‘Offensives’ never seem to really materialise and both side seem stuck in a stalemate whilst the body count on both sides mounts up.

So, is it time for some sort of negotiation or should it be allowed to just plow on?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12583467/Zelenskys-Western-support-dented-Slovakia-election-American-congress.html

[ToraToraTora]

As long as it takes, we can't let the Psycho in Moscow get out of this with any sort of claim of "victory". Ideally his own side will sort it at some point.

[retrocop]

On of our Chiefs of Staff recently said we now have nothing left in ordnance to defend this country. We are spent!

[youngmafbog]

//Ideally his own side will sort it at some point.//

That most likely will not happen, and even if it did the successor could be even worse.  Be careful what you wish for.

Russia has been exposed for what it is, recovery from that on the world stage will take a very long time.

And it cannot go on forever, there will come a point that the funding has to stop and looking around the world that may be sooner rather than later.

[naomi24]

//is it time for some sort of negotiation//

 

Between whom?   Neither side is going to budge.  If we stop supporting Ukraine with arms and military equipment, what happens then - and where will it leave the Western world?

[retrocop]

sorry. Forgot the link earlier post

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/02/britain-run-out-of-arms-send-to-ukraine-says-military-chief/?utmsource=email

[Old_Geezer]

If we are "spent" merely sending weapons to an ally then clearly we weren't prepared for hostilities towards us either. We need to increase production rate and stockpile more starting immediately !

[naomi24]

Here's one solution.  Give them someone else's.

//US gives 1.1 million rounds of ammunition seized from Iran to Kyiv//

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67014218

[ToraToraTora]

"That most likely will not happen, and even if it did the successor could be even worse.  Be careful what you wish for." - probably but the new guy can blame it all on Putin and then repair realations with the west. They know what a disaster it has been for Russia, they'll have a scape goat and then they can carry on with their own agenda in peace. Gives them a way out.

[youngmafbog]

//Gives them a way out.//

These are Russian fanatics we are talking about, they tend not to be rational.  It is more likely they would try to up the ante, maybe backing off a bit while they rebuild arms etc, but ultimately trying to show they are better than Putin and can succeed.

But that is really beside the point.  It seems that the number in the West who are questioning the expenditure is growing so how long can Western Governments keep this going?  This is turning into another Afghanistan, and look how that turned out.

[ichkeria]

"As long as it takes" is the answer to that, although I'd prefer a more forceful, dynamic soundbite.

Because the truth is that there isn't a stalemate in Ukraine: Russia is losing its war and losing it badly: it's not obvious to the casual onlooker because Ukrainian tanks are not sweeping across the wheatfields of southern Ukraine.

Because we did not supply Ukraine with the airpower it asked for over a year ago, nor enough of the heavy mobile armour it asked for, nor all of the long range missiles (especially ATACMS, which are at long last coming, like the airpower), Ukraine has had to adopt a smarter approach against an enemy that still possesses superior air power and seemingly unlimited mines. Slowly but surely they are destroying Russia's military machine. The dam will break eventually: and not in years but more likely in months if not sooner.

The Mail article's two bullet points actually miss the point: support for Ukraine in the US is holding up pretty well. The budget hold up was only partly related to that: I wish Biden would take the time to address the nation and remind ordinary Americans, most of whom are understandably not that knowledgeable nor with the luxury of time to go into it on more detail, why supporting Ukraine is a win for the US in the medium to long term, and that the money the US sends is a drop in the ocean. Most of the trouble is caused by a small minority of loony far right republicans who motivation I frankly cannot fathom.

As for Slovakia, a nation of 5 million people, they were one of the first countries to send aid to Ukraine and while they have the capacity to be obstructive (their president, not Fico, has decided to oppose further aid) it's not really likely to cause much of a ripple. We have had to live in the EU with a Putin ally after all in Hungary's Viktor Oran for several years anyway. We mustn't do Putin's work for him. The only way he could hope to win would be if Ukraine's friends deserted it. the rather irresponsible Mail article is just the sort of "news" that would gladden his wretched heart.

In any case, there was a major development last week, which got no coverage that I could see in the media: at a forum in Ukraine thirty countries agreed to create a military industrial complex in Ukraine itself, with the weapons manufacturers of those countries setting up business to arm the countires defences. If that's not a signal that "As long as it takes" is truly the message, then I don't know what is.

 

 

 

[nicebloke1]

What springs to mind, and  by what I've seen, although its been an uphill struggle and still is no doubt, that Ukraine have worked smarter not harder. Hit and run, hit and run, hit and again and stay.

[youngmafbog]

// "As long as it takes" is truly the message, then I don't know what is.//

Thats fine if you are not suffering becasue of the cost of it, or dying.  I guess a socilist you have no problem spending other peoples money but like TGL said (para phrased) socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money.

[ichkeria]

What the hell has "socialism" got to do with it?

Honestly you should extract this bee you seem to have in your bonnet about "lefties". The problem from the left is people, some well meaning, who oppose military spending either on the grounds of promoting "peace" or because they have it in for the west and Nato. If the cause is just then the money is worth it, and additionally, as Old_Geezer wisely alluded to above a "just in time" approach to resources is no good in war. We have underspent and understocked in recent years because there's no votes in doing the right thing. It's been a rude awakening, but the west can easily outstrip russia in industrial production and I believe will do so. Their artillery is getting systematically hammered as it is. 

[nicebloke1]

13.12 So what would you do, wait until Putin knocks on your front door. Ukraine are not just fighting for Ukraine, the sooner you start to understand that the better you will feel, its the Ukrainians that are at present dying. Not sure what cost you are talking about ( personal to you money wise) if so, thats the price for stopping alive and well.

[ladybirder]

Your headline on the side here says, "How long will the world continue".  Frightened the life out of me.  I thought you knew something we didn't and we might not be here by Christmas!

[ichkeria]

ymb's question is a fair one provided it is a genuine question and not a rhetorical one: people are hard up and they see all this money getting spent.

But it's a question that has good answers. 

[nicebloke1]

^^ The last I heard Santa is still on contract to come.

[nicebloke1]

13.35 I don't believe that they are all that hard up, just a little more difficult to have the all the lovely goodies we have got use to, and having to pay extra for the food we eat. Some countries wish they had the option to buy food never mind the price. Well thats my thought any how.

[ichkeria]

Apparently Biden is indeed going to make a "big speech" on Ukraine and the need for continued support. Armed forces minister James Heapey announced last week that further (he didn't use that word :-)) British military personnel would be sent to Ukraine as advisers  

[youngmafbog]

//I don't believe that they are all that hard up, just a little more difficult to have the all the lovely goodies we have got use to,//

Oh really, and I thought you claimed to be more intelligent than most.