Dye or Die?

[samsimjee]

In the saying 'the dye/die has been cast' does this refer to dye as in the textile sense or die as in dice, the gambling sense?

[incitatus]

die as in singular dice. It is a saying from Appian. In The civil wars he has Ceasar say "alea jacta est", roughly "the die is cast" as in he had thrown the dice (in this case crossed the rubicon river with his troops) and all he could do was wait to see the results.

[manics_]

a die is an engraved metal piece used for impressing a design onto a softer metal, as in coining money. The phrase is suggesting that once the die is cast and the metal has been inmprinted on the metal it cannot be changed. Therefore; The decision has been made and is irrevocable.

[incitatus]

no, manics, it really isnt, because it comes, as stated above, from appians civil war. the word alea as used in the latin original for which "the die is cast" is the translation means die as in gaming piece. it also means chance or hazard sometimes. it doesnt mean stamp[ing die.

[robber1]

My first reaction was to agree with manics. I welcome other opinions and dont mind being proved wrong, so if proof of either answer can be found , please let us know.

[incitatus]

Try reading appians civil wars, for gods sake. or look here: http://www.thefab.net/topics/culture_lang/cl04_lat
in.htm or here: http://www.freeessays.cc/db/42/sra137.shtml

[sft42]

All sources I can find see to favour Inci's responce, which is the one i would have given if the question hadn't been answered yet.

http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/meanings/358600.html

http://www.zatang.com/categories/leisure/whatstheg
oodword/anupam/goodword.htm

and best of all http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxthedie.htm
l

[incitatus]

basically it was a phrase given to schoolboys to translate. alea=gaming peice, dice or chance, jacta=throw or cast (usage slightly archaic but fishermen still cast lines and the proverb cast thy bread upon the waters was referring to throwing the bread not making it set.) est=is