Heaven/Hell query.

[styley]

When is it suggested that heaven and hell came into existence? Did both start at the same time? Was it when religion started to gain momentum a couple of thousand years ago or before that? And at what time did people start going to either place? Also are there any estimates for the population of both places combined?

[Buenchico]

There seem to be some Christian assumptions in your assertion that religion 'started to gain momentum a couple of thousand years ago'. However, Christianity is a relative newcomer as far as religions are concerned. Judaism goes much further back. The Egyptians were living in a society ruled by religious beliefs at least 2000 years before the birth of Christ. Other religions go back even further. Religion (in its various forms) had gained full momentum well before Christianity was born.

Most religions seem to embrace the idea of an 'afterlife' which, in turn, usually involves some concept of 'heaven'.

The ancient Greeks recognised the concept of Hades but, as I understand it, they didn't regard it in the same way that many modern religions see Hell. (i.e. a place which receives the souls of the damned).

The idea of the souls of the dead being consigned to either Heaven or Hell seems to be primarily associated with the three religions which recognise Abraham as a patriarch. i.e. Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Since Abraham probably lived around 2000 BC, that suggests that the idea of 'heaven and hell' has been around for at least 4000 years.

Theoretically, it wouldn't be hard to get an estimate for the total number of people consigned to both Heaven and Hell, by simply calculating the total number people who've ever lived. However, such a calculation presents a problem for anyone who accepts the truth of evolution but who also believes that only humans (and not apes) have souls. The question they must struggle to answer relates to determining the point at which soul-less apes evolved into humans with a soul.

This might help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell

Chris

[JockSporran]

According to some Christian mythology, Heaven came first, until Satan started the War in Heaven. Satan was the highest angel in Heaven until, jealous at the creation of man, he led a rebellion against God. Satan and his rebel angels were defeated and cast down into Hell, where Satan set up his own kingdom, plotting the destruction of mankind.

[Whickerman]

...as told in the Book of Enoch

[jake-the-peg]

Article in wikipedia here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in_Christian _beliefs

being contested quite strongly which you'll see if you read the discussion page but it's pretty much in line with my understanding of the origin.

There's a 40 minute radio documentry here :http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_religion.shtml ( about 3rd down) which I listened to some time ago and is also quite good.

Certainly the notion of judgement is quite early and the Egyption bok of the dead has people's hearts being weighed against a feather and if your's didn't pass it was eaten by amit

http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/ reli24b.jpg

but that's not quite the samething as Hell.

There's certainly a link between the term Hell and the valley outside Jerusalem where the rubbish was burned but it seems quite complicated and has evolved ovre the years

[styley]

I don't feel as if anyone has had a proper think about this. I'm none the wiser.