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Enhancing the rich tapestry of cultural life in Britain?'
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-103444 5/Police-fury-bosses-tell-celebrate-gipsies.ht ml
Denise Milani, director of the Met's 'Diversity and Citizen Focus Directorate',
Now there's a job title to conjure with, straight out of the Guardian's situations wanted pages maybe? Was it another example of Reverse Discrimination.
But at �70,000 per year it's not to be sneezed at.
Is this woman for real?
This is the PC brigade gone barking mad once again.
Denise Milani, director of the Met's 'Diversity and Citizen Focus Directorate',
Now there's a job title to conjure with, straight out of the Guardian's situations wanted pages maybe? Was it another example of Reverse Discrimination.
But at �70,000 per year it's not to be sneezed at.
Is this woman for real?
This is the PC brigade gone barking mad once again.
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In the crazy world which is now the UK, this is almost de rigueur.
It is unfortunate that Ms Milani has chosen, as the object of her affections, a group who, generally, are probably among the most morally bankrupt of all the various waifs and strays that this country has had forcibly foisted upon it.
I pity the rank and file officers who have to put up with all this claptrap whilst trying to keep order on the streets. Their chief, the disgraceful Ian Blair, suggests that she is �a great asset to the force�. I consider that a far greater asset would be two fully trained constables (whose salary that of Ms Milani would cover). They could be put on the streets to feel a few collars and hopefully prevent one or two law-abiding souls from having their wallets lifted.
Quite why the Metropolitan Police needs a �Diversity and Citizen Focus Directorate� is anybody�s guess. Ms Milani sees her role as �bringing people who have been traditionally disempowered or at the margins to the table�.
She should find herself a proper job.
It is unfortunate that Ms Milani has chosen, as the object of her affections, a group who, generally, are probably among the most morally bankrupt of all the various waifs and strays that this country has had forcibly foisted upon it.
I pity the rank and file officers who have to put up with all this claptrap whilst trying to keep order on the streets. Their chief, the disgraceful Ian Blair, suggests that she is �a great asset to the force�. I consider that a far greater asset would be two fully trained constables (whose salary that of Ms Milani would cover). They could be put on the streets to feel a few collars and hopefully prevent one or two law-abiding souls from having their wallets lifted.
Quite why the Metropolitan Police needs a �Diversity and Citizen Focus Directorate� is anybody�s guess. Ms Milani sees her role as �bringing people who have been traditionally disempowered or at the margins to the table�.
She should find herself a proper job.
Coincidentally in my experience, any group arriving in caravans,whether it be Roma gypsies, Irish tinkers or New Age travellers, is always accompanied by a spate of thefts in the area, from bicycles to scrap to shoplifting. It subsides when they leave.
I have been a victim of such crime several times over the years, and also witnessed women and children stealing from shop front displays.
I'm not speculating, just giving the facts as I know them.
I have been a victim of such crime several times over the years, and also witnessed women and children stealing from shop front displays.
I'm not speculating, just giving the facts as I know them.
As I recall, the term you mention was coined by Lord Scarman who used it in his ridiculous report into the Brixton Riots. It was immediately accepted by the Met�s senior managers (though not so much by the officers on the ground, including many senior ranks) who by then had begun the process of turning the Met from a police force into a branch of the social services. Quite simply they were petrified to accept that their efforts to rid the streets of Brixton of serious crime must continue to be targeted towards blacks. (And before you ask, I lived in the area at that time and I know what was going on).
The term is no more helpful now than it was then. Even if it was true (and it is not only me who has doubts) it will not be overcome by telling the rank-and-file to "celebrate" the presence of a group who commit (using the Met management�s own figures) a disproportionately large number of crimes.
They do not need �bringing to the table� � they need bringing to Court. This is a task that Ms Milani is singularly ill-equipped to help achieve in her current role.
The term is no more helpful now than it was then. Even if it was true (and it is not only me who has doubts) it will not be overcome by telling the rank-and-file to "celebrate" the presence of a group who commit (using the Met management�s own figures) a disproportionately large number of crimes.
They do not need �bringing to the table� � they need bringing to Court. This is a task that Ms Milani is singularly ill-equipped to help achieve in her current role.
The point of this role, is to simply educate the police force that even though 'a disproportionately large number of crimes' can be committed by a group, that does not mean that the whole group is to be assumed to be guilty.
In the same way that not all black people commit crimes, not all gypsies are thieves.
I am sure that the police officers are representative of the wider community.
Ask most people on AB, what they think of gypsies and they will echo Theland's post.
Are all gypsies criminals? No, of course not. That is what this role is about - educating police officers.
In the same way that not all black people commit crimes, not all gypsies are thieves.
I am sure that the police officers are representative of the wider community.
Ask most people on AB, what they think of gypsies and they will echo Theland's post.
Are all gypsies criminals? No, of course not. That is what this role is about - educating police officers.
Well, Vic, I come into contact with many serving police officers in the course of some of my work and I can tell you categorically that the last thing they need, would welcome or have the time for is �education� as you describe.
They know where the problems lie and know how best to direct their efforts. Of course not all gypsies are thieves, not even most of them are. But many of them are and if a few of them are upset by the police concentrating their efforts towards them that�s just too bad.
I guess we�ll just have to agree to differ.
They know where the problems lie and know how best to direct their efforts. Of course not all gypsies are thieves, not even most of them are. But many of them are and if a few of them are upset by the police concentrating their efforts towards them that�s just too bad.
I guess we�ll just have to agree to differ.
The more you marginalise any group the greater problems there will be. the more you understand where people are from, their culture and the motivation that drives them to act as they do the better served you will be to deal with it.
As nearly everyone agrees, most gypsies are reasonably law abiding, therefore it's up to us to provide opportunities for legal advancement which must then take the main stage whilst successfully dealing with the criminal element therin.
They are without doubt the single group most discriminated against in europe, because of popular myth, hearsay and misconception, so education can be no bad thing for officers having to deal with them.
Or would you rather we treated them in the same disgusting way that is proposed in Italy? I thought we fought a war to stop that kind of thing?
As nearly everyone agrees, most gypsies are reasonably law abiding, therefore it's up to us to provide opportunities for legal advancement which must then take the main stage whilst successfully dealing with the criminal element therin.
They are without doubt the single group most discriminated against in europe, because of popular myth, hearsay and misconception, so education can be no bad thing for officers having to deal with them.
Or would you rather we treated them in the same disgusting way that is proposed in Italy? I thought we fought a war to stop that kind of thing?
A few ABers have stated that it is only a very small number of Gypsies that cause all the trouble.
If this is correct, then why don't the 'majority' of good Gypsies rain down hard on this 'Minority' and make them toe the line?
They could start by making them clean up a site before they leave, or perhaps the 'Good Majority' could clean it up for them.
I wonder why this never happens, could it be because they are all the "Bl**dy same?
If this is correct, then why don't the 'majority' of good Gypsies rain down hard on this 'Minority' and make them toe the line?
They could start by making them clean up a site before they leave, or perhaps the 'Good Majority' could clean it up for them.
I wonder why this never happens, could it be because they are all the "Bl**dy same?
The problem is, New Judge, is when the police do not bother looking for any other suspects if there are gypsies about.
That is what I believe this is about.
I am pretty sure at the moment, if you lived near a gypsy site and had something stolen, the police would say to you "yep, we've had a few like that - it's the gypsies and there isn't anything we can do about it".
Should an attitude like that be changed? Of course it should.
That is what I believe this is about.
I am pretty sure at the moment, if you lived near a gypsy site and had something stolen, the police would say to you "yep, we've had a few like that - it's the gypsies and there isn't anything we can do about it".
Should an attitude like that be changed? Of course it should.
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The presumption of innocence, jake is a legal presumption, not a fact. It places the burden of proof upon the prosecution, not the defendant. And that is all it does.
When I last checked it was not the job of the police to undertake prosecutions. Since 1985 it has been the job of the CPS. The function of the police is to prevent crime, and if they cannot, then to identify and apprehend the perpetrators. In doing this they cannot be bound by this presumption of innocence. If they were they would be able to neither suspect nor arrest anybody. This is clearly nonsense (unless you�d like anarchy to prevail).
The police have limited resources, Vic, available to them to detect crime and they have to prioritise those resources. They know (from the figures accepted even by their senior managers, many of whom have been chosen for, shall we say, their complete impartiality, rather than any ability they may have as �thief takers�) that certain sections of the population commit a disproportionately high number of certain types of crime.
So when, for example, metal goes missing from my local church roof, there is no point, as part of their investigation, in the police stopping old ladies on their way home from the Women�s Institute. I would rather they have a nose round the nearest gypsy encampment first. That is what they do, and that is what I want them to do. If they turn up nothing, then move on to the old ladies.
If they need �educating� by the like of Ms Milani and her department to dissuade them from doing this, then they might as well pack up and go home. And if you cannot see this, then no amount of education from me or anybody else will persuade you otherwise.
When I last checked it was not the job of the police to undertake prosecutions. Since 1985 it has been the job of the CPS. The function of the police is to prevent crime, and if they cannot, then to identify and apprehend the perpetrators. In doing this they cannot be bound by this presumption of innocence. If they were they would be able to neither suspect nor arrest anybody. This is clearly nonsense (unless you�d like anarchy to prevail).
The police have limited resources, Vic, available to them to detect crime and they have to prioritise those resources. They know (from the figures accepted even by their senior managers, many of whom have been chosen for, shall we say, their complete impartiality, rather than any ability they may have as �thief takers�) that certain sections of the population commit a disproportionately high number of certain types of crime.
So when, for example, metal goes missing from my local church roof, there is no point, as part of their investigation, in the police stopping old ladies on their way home from the Women�s Institute. I would rather they have a nose round the nearest gypsy encampment first. That is what they do, and that is what I want them to do. If they turn up nothing, then move on to the old ladies.
If they need �educating� by the like of Ms Milani and her department to dissuade them from doing this, then they might as well pack up and go home. And if you cannot see this, then no amount of education from me or anybody else will persuade you otherwise.
So when, for example, metal goes missing from my local church roof, there is no point, as part of their investigation, in the police stopping old ladies on their way home from the Women�s Institute. I would rather they have a nose round the nearest gypsy encampment first. That is what they do, and that is what I want them to do. If they turn up nothing, then move on to the old ladies.
No issue with your scenario - though in my limited experience it is more like "metal goes missing, police don't bother investigating assuming gypsies are responsible, tell everyone that they know who did it but its all down to 'hooman rights'"
No issue with your scenario - though in my limited experience it is more like "metal goes missing, police don't bother investigating assuming gypsies are responsible, tell everyone that they know who did it but its all down to 'hooman rights'"
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