Christian Bus Driver refuses to drive 'Probably No God' bus

[Gromit]

A Christian bus driver has refused to drive a bus with an atheist slogan proclaiming "There's probably no God".

Ron Heather, from Southampton, Hampshire, responded with "shock" and "horror" at the message and walked out of his shift on Saturday in protest.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7 832647.stm

Should this man's religious beliefs be a reason for him refusing to do his job?

[jake-the-peg]

No

This is different to asking Jews or Mulims to handle sausages.

It's not part of the Christian Religion to not drive busses with athiestic messages.

This is part of his personal belief and not part of the religion he follows.

[LeMarchand]

Why not?

This country is "officially" Christian, but rules are bent for other religions so why shouldn't he have the right to refuse to support an atheist campaign. (Though the "probably" suggests it's more agnostic than atheist).

I'm an atheist, by the way.

[BigDave44]

The word "probably" was insisted on by the ASA or similar watchdog.

Personally, I think that trying to persuade people to "unbelieve" is a waste of time. We are free to believe or not, and unlikely to change because of an advertising campaign.

However, the bus driver has my sympathy. It does not take a degree in rocket science for his employers to have anticipated the predicament in which they were placing some of their staff.

[tigerlily11]

This Jake does go against his religion of a belief in God. They are asking him to drive a bus saying something that goes against what he believes.
If a Muslim or Jew were asked to do the same thing and advertise the none existance of God they would complain as well.

[jake-the-peg]

Rot!

Right then - where are all the muslims refusing to drive these busses?

Are there no muslim bus drivers?

How about all the drink adverts? surely they must have boycotted them by now?

(PS I think this is brilliant - this idiot Christian is giving Dawkins more publicity for his money than he could possibly have hoped for)

[jno]

so if a driver disagreed with an ad for, oh I don't know, vitamin pills... I don't believe in them, myself. But they wouldn't be asking me to handle them (unlike Muslims having to handle sausages), just drive my bus. Should I be able to refuse?

On the whole I think not.

[LeMarchand]

Can't remember seeing a drink advert on a bus for ages. It's possible that I've just not noticed them, but I wonder if they aren't allowed to advertise on public transport (like ciggies).

I always assumed that the campaign was aimed at the Christian "God" rather than that of other religions (who may/may not have other names for their deity). BTW Jake, you've avoided no.knowledge's question.

[tigerlily11]

Not really Jake. The story of them advertising their thoughts on the existance of God has been doing the rounds for ages now.
If he was going to get any more funding he would have by now.
No There have not been any Muslim complaints but then if they did I'm sure it to would make the front pages in more places than just the BBC. After all look at the coverage that is afforded to the Musilm that tried to sue Tesco over having to sell booze.
I understand that this country is one of free speaach and while I believe in God I would not question the athiests for stating otherwise. That is one of the great things about this country. I also believe this man has a right to say wether he wants to advertise what he sees and something that is against his beliefs.
It is also the reason why people are allowed to insult the beliefs of others while offering no substantial or reasonable argument against it other than he is an idiot.

[jake-the-peg]

Sorry - can't answer them all!

There is a difference there that I alluded to in my first answer.

There is an absolute prohibition of pork in in the Jewish and muslim faiths.

There is no prohibition in advertising other peoples opinions in Christianity.

You can't even plead the graven images thing because this is not another religion - despite what some people seem to think.

I think my example is therefore better - where are the muslim bus drivers objecting to the adverts their busses carry?

[LeMarchand]

@ jno: There's a precedent that has been set for religious beliefs. If one person's religious beliefs are allowed to give them certain rights (say to refuse to work under certain conditions), then so should another's.

[ludwig]

'Should his religious beliefs be a reason for him refusing to do his job' ?

Yes, of course - he can have any reason he wants for refusing to do his job, including 'It's a Tuesday', or 'I'm not in the mood today'.

The question is whether the employer should tolerate it, and that's really up to them. In this case they've reached a mutually agreeable arrangement, so good, everybody's happy.

[Ethel]

This driver is being very reasonable - he obviously feels very strongly about it, as is his right, but he is also accommodating:

'He...agreed to go back to work with the promise he would only have to drive the buses if there were no others available'

So, he is not flatly refusing to drive the bus with that advert on it, and his bosses aren't refusing to listen to him and accommodate him.

Good outcome all round, I think

[LeMarchand]

@ jake: The first and third commandments would seem to cover the driver's objections:

'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

and possibly the fourth:

'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

As for the Muslim drivers, I believe that the ad campaign is a direct attack on Christianity - whereas (say) an advert for Pork Scratchings wouldn't be a direct attack on Islam. Do you really believe that if the advert said "There is (probably) no Allah" that a devout Muslim would be happy driving the bus?

[sp1814]

This story makes me very happy.

After I come back from lunch, I hope to see all the dailymailers who foamed at the mouth when they read the story about the Muslim Tesco worker will add their indignation to this thread.

I reckon that Madonna will win a Best Actress Oscar before I see that.

[andy-hughes]

I think ludwig has pointed out the crix of the situation.

Yes the driver is entitled to object - and his employer would be entitled to dismiss him for refusing to do his job without a reasonable reason being given.

As it is, an amicable compromise has been reached, so it's hardly anything to get into a state about.

As I have said before - anyone with a faith worth having shouldn't be so put out if others choose not to folow their beliefs.

[BertiWooster]

I fully sympathise with this guy - it was quite reasonable for him to voice his concern .

Afterall he was being asked to drive this bus around , with an advert on it ; which totally goes against his beliefs

And as been pointed out both sides were prepared to resolve the situation , using common sense

[Quinlad]

A couple of things to clear up.

The "probably" was not put in at the insistence of any watchdog. It's simply what atheists believe.

The advert targets all major religions. They all have gods.

[jake-the-peg]

They better get used to it

I've just checked Dawkins site.

They were trying to raise �5,500 for 30 bus adverts

They actually got �135,000!

Now there will be 800 buses and even animated versions on screens in Oxford Street.

Italy and Spain are doing likewise and adverts have been running a month now in Washington DC!

http://richarddawkins.net/article,3494,Atheist s-launch-bus-ad-campaign,Ariane-Sherine