ChatterBank2 mins ago
Road Traffic Accident Death
Hi all,
My partner was involved in last year. Unfortunatly there was a fatality of a young person and others seriously injured. I am going to explain what happened but i will not lie as i need a truthful response
My partner was involved in an accident last year in which she was driving along a country road at 9.30 at night last November. The weather was horrendous (that is not an understatement) it was raining very heavily. She had her wipers on full speed and her lights on dipped beam due to other traffic further down the road. She was driving away from a village out of a 30 mph zone in which she had just come round a bend that can only be taken at 20mph. she had just entered a 40 mph zone when about 50 yards up the road she was in collision with pedestrians walking in the road. She stated to the police that she was doing 40mph but does not know for sure as it was probably less but definatly not more. The road was very poorly lit with street lights covered with trees, only on one side of the road and at a larger distance between them than normal town lights
She was in collision with numerous pedestrians which were walking in the road, with their backs to the traffic and all wearing very dark clothing with no high visibility clothing or equipment. There was a path on the grass verge but due to the weather they seemed to have chosen to walk on the road aswell, as they were in a large group
I was at the incident within 5 minutes and did some checks for myself. There were no skid marks on the road and the car had stopped about 25 yards away from the people and the car was straddling the middle white line. There were no tyre marks on the grass verge. The police have checked my partners phone and call records and they have been passed back to us all clear. She has been to the doctors due to pain in her hands. The doctor confirmed it was due to holding and gripping the wheel with both hands at the time of the incident. She was not drinking.
My partner was involved in last year. Unfortunatly there was a fatality of a young person and others seriously injured. I am going to explain what happened but i will not lie as i need a truthful response
My partner was involved in an accident last year in which she was driving along a country road at 9.30 at night last November. The weather was horrendous (that is not an understatement) it was raining very heavily. She had her wipers on full speed and her lights on dipped beam due to other traffic further down the road. She was driving away from a village out of a 30 mph zone in which she had just come round a bend that can only be taken at 20mph. she had just entered a 40 mph zone when about 50 yards up the road she was in collision with pedestrians walking in the road. She stated to the police that she was doing 40mph but does not know for sure as it was probably less but definatly not more. The road was very poorly lit with street lights covered with trees, only on one side of the road and at a larger distance between them than normal town lights
She was in collision with numerous pedestrians which were walking in the road, with their backs to the traffic and all wearing very dark clothing with no high visibility clothing or equipment. There was a path on the grass verge but due to the weather they seemed to have chosen to walk on the road aswell, as they were in a large group
I was at the incident within 5 minutes and did some checks for myself. There were no skid marks on the road and the car had stopped about 25 yards away from the people and the car was straddling the middle white line. There were no tyre marks on the grass verge. The police have checked my partners phone and call records and they have been passed back to us all clear. She has been to the doctors due to pain in her hands. The doctor confirmed it was due to holding and gripping the wheel with both hands at the time of the incident. She was not drinking.
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If I read that right, are you saying your partner was doing the 20 mph limit on the corner, then 50 yards further along, she was doing 40 mph, within the limit?
If that is the case then she has, legally, done nothing wrong. She stuck within the limits and it was unfortunate that she hit some people, and one died.
However, as all drivers know, if weather conditions were 'horrendous' then we'd tend to drive more slowly to make sure we, and others, were safe. I take it your partner did not?
I guess, for her, people can say over and over again that she didn't break the speed limit, but she has to live with the thought that if she'd slowed down, due to the weather, she may not have caused the death of a person.
Sorry if that's not clear, I'm a bit confused about what you're asking. I guess all you can do is be there for your partner. She's not a bad person, she didn't set out to hurt anyone, it could just be an awful accident that could have happened to anyone, and it's just bad luck that she happened to be there at the time that people were walking there.
If that is the case then she has, legally, done nothing wrong. She stuck within the limits and it was unfortunate that she hit some people, and one died.
However, as all drivers know, if weather conditions were 'horrendous' then we'd tend to drive more slowly to make sure we, and others, were safe. I take it your partner did not?
I guess, for her, people can say over and over again that she didn't break the speed limit, but she has to live with the thought that if she'd slowed down, due to the weather, she may not have caused the death of a person.
Sorry if that's not clear, I'm a bit confused about what you're asking. I guess all you can do is be there for your partner. She's not a bad person, she didn't set out to hurt anyone, it could just be an awful accident that could have happened to anyone, and it's just bad luck that she happened to be there at the time that people were walking there.
What they missed off the end was what i was asking.
I just want to know what people think as to what the CPS may try to charge her with. The investigating officer said that they may go for driving without due care and attention at the most, but it is not upto him it is upto the CPS. However that comes under the careless driving section, in which you can be charged with death by careless driving. If the CPS want to show that they want to do something on behalf of the public or families involved they may go for the harsher charge.
As for the realtion to the speed, she stated that she was driving at 40mph as it was more in panic as she did not know and just stated the speed limit. I do not believe she was doing 40 mph as the stopping distance is too short.
As she is struggling to come to terms with it as it is. The last thing she needs is the CPS trying to blame her for it and make her an example to others. I do not know how the CPS works, that why i was asking for help.
Thanks
I just want to know what people think as to what the CPS may try to charge her with. The investigating officer said that they may go for driving without due care and attention at the most, but it is not upto him it is upto the CPS. However that comes under the careless driving section, in which you can be charged with death by careless driving. If the CPS want to show that they want to do something on behalf of the public or families involved they may go for the harsher charge.
As for the realtion to the speed, she stated that she was driving at 40mph as it was more in panic as she did not know and just stated the speed limit. I do not believe she was doing 40 mph as the stopping distance is too short.
As she is struggling to come to terms with it as it is. The last thing she needs is the CPS trying to blame her for it and make her an example to others. I do not know how the CPS works, that why i was asking for help.
Thanks
You've not actually asked a question, so it's rather hard to respond.
However it occurs to me that just because a road has a maximum speed limit of 40mph it's wrong to assume that it's always safe to drive at that speed. In some countries, (e.g. France), speed limits in non-urban areas are automatically reduced in wet conditions. In the type of conditions you describe a maximum speed of (at the very most) 25mph might have been more appropriate. (I've been driving on the M11, at normal speed, when sudden monsoon-like conditions occurred. The visibility was so bad that the majority of drivers pulled onto the hard shoulder until conditions improved. Those that continued onwards drove at around 10 to 15mph. If those speeds are appropriate under extreme conditions on a motorway, it seems logical that similar speed reductions are required on country roads)
If you're asking about the possible legal implications arising from the accident, this page from the Crown Prosecution Service website is relevant:
http://www.cps.gov.uk/Publications/prosecution /pbd_policy.html
(Section 5 is the bit you need to read. Paragraph 41 of that section relates to the relevance of road conditions).
If this post isn't what you're looking for, please accept my apologies. As I stated above, it's hard to know how to respond in the absence of a specific question.
Chris
However it occurs to me that just because a road has a maximum speed limit of 40mph it's wrong to assume that it's always safe to drive at that speed. In some countries, (e.g. France), speed limits in non-urban areas are automatically reduced in wet conditions. In the type of conditions you describe a maximum speed of (at the very most) 25mph might have been more appropriate. (I've been driving on the M11, at normal speed, when sudden monsoon-like conditions occurred. The visibility was so bad that the majority of drivers pulled onto the hard shoulder until conditions improved. Those that continued onwards drove at around 10 to 15mph. If those speeds are appropriate under extreme conditions on a motorway, it seems logical that similar speed reductions are required on country roads)
If you're asking about the possible legal implications arising from the accident, this page from the Crown Prosecution Service website is relevant:
http://www.cps.gov.uk/Publications/prosecution /pbd_policy.html
(Section 5 is the bit you need to read. Paragraph 41 of that section relates to the relevance of road conditions).
If this post isn't what you're looking for, please accept my apologies. As I stated above, it's hard to know how to respond in the absence of a specific question.
Chris
if the stopping distance can prove that she was driving under 40mph then the more than likely wont charge her with driving withou due are and attention thus meaning proof she was driving with caution due o the weather being so poor and visablity would have been terrible and the pedestrians shouldnt have been walking in the road if the conditions were so bad knowing they were at risk of injury or more .....anything else i can help with just ask or emai me [email protected] as a friend of mine went trough a similar experiene
Your partner has my sympathy. I'm sure many drivers must be thinking "there but for the grace of God...".
I've never actually hit anyone, but I have had the fright on a number of occasions of just spotting someone at the last minute, when driving in the dark and rain.
When I was a kid we were constantly reminded by TV adverts and schoolteachers to wear bright clothing or armbands , to walk on the pavement or verge where possible, and to face the oncoming traffic. Unfortunately, road sense for pedestrians doesn't seem to be taught any more.
I've never actually hit anyone, but I have had the fright on a number of occasions of just spotting someone at the last minute, when driving in the dark and rain.
When I was a kid we were constantly reminded by TV adverts and schoolteachers to wear bright clothing or armbands , to walk on the pavement or verge where possible, and to face the oncoming traffic. Unfortunately, road sense for pedestrians doesn't seem to be taught any more.
>>>Unfortunately, road sense for pedestrians doesn't seem to be taught any more.
To reply to rojash's post:
I would throw this comment back at the motorist. Surely any driver should only drive at a speed where they can safely stop if there is a problem ahead? It doesnt matter whether that is another car, animal or, as in this case, a group of pedestrians. If you cannot stop in time then you are driving too fast.
This doesnt help the original poster of course. I think you just have to wait and see what the CPS decide. Quoting speed limits are of no use in a case like this when the safe speed limit in the conditions would be much less. If you cant see whats on the road ahead then either stop or drive slowly. I'm not having a go, just stating common sense.
To reply to rojash's post:
I would throw this comment back at the motorist. Surely any driver should only drive at a speed where they can safely stop if there is a problem ahead? It doesnt matter whether that is another car, animal or, as in this case, a group of pedestrians. If you cannot stop in time then you are driving too fast.
This doesnt help the original poster of course. I think you just have to wait and see what the CPS decide. Quoting speed limits are of no use in a case like this when the safe speed limit in the conditions would be much less. If you cant see whats on the road ahead then either stop or drive slowly. I'm not having a go, just stating common sense.
From your description it sounds like an accident, pure and simple, do not accept anything else, plead not guilty if necessary. The worst case is a due care rap. As they were in the road without visible clothes when there was a pavement available, and gioven the weather I'd say there's nothing to prosecute here.
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Hi Mike, First My sympathy to your partner for this traumatic accident, Something on the same line happened to a fellow driver I was following at Gretna Green (M74) many years ago involving a Motorway worker, the poor lad died because he was complacent with his job of entering his van from the driver door on the hard shoulder of a Motorway. The result was accidental death due to the persons actions ( The Motorway Worker) you said the time was 9.30 had you just come out of a eating establishment? the reason I ask the question will give you firm evidence to the time accident of the estimated speed she was doing, with respect to the deceased person she put herself in a very vulnerable position in that the weather was bad & also the clothing she was wearing, Can you remember if your partner sounded her horn? if so the responce from the pedestrian if any. I hope all works out well for your partner, this is something she will never put behind her as I know first hand, also by saying that my thoughts are with the other person's relations. Take care.
The CPS will be working very closely with the Police who, because of the fatality, would undoubtedly have had an AI(Accident Investigator), an experienced Road Traffic Officer, as their main source of information.
Normal procedure following a serious RTA(Road Traffic Accident) such as this, would have involved the AI plus of course other Police, obviously ambulances, possibly even fire brigade, attending the scene asap. The Police would have cordoned off the relevant area and would have treated it as a crime scene in order to gather evidence which would ultimately have been passed to the CPS who would then decide what charges, IF ANY, were appropriate as a result of the evidence presented.
All mitigating factors as well, i.e. road conditions, weather, visibility, stopping distances, lighting etc etc, are taken into consideration by CPS in conjuction with the Police before any further action may be taken.
Ultimately, of course, were your partner to be charged with any given offence, the CPS have to provide the evidence to substantiate it and in the final analysis it is up to a Court to decide who, if anyone, is guilty or innocent.
Normal procedure following a serious RTA(Road Traffic Accident) such as this, would have involved the AI plus of course other Police, obviously ambulances, possibly even fire brigade, attending the scene asap. The Police would have cordoned off the relevant area and would have treated it as a crime scene in order to gather evidence which would ultimately have been passed to the CPS who would then decide what charges, IF ANY, were appropriate as a result of the evidence presented.
All mitigating factors as well, i.e. road conditions, weather, visibility, stopping distances, lighting etc etc, are taken into consideration by CPS in conjuction with the Police before any further action may be taken.
Ultimately, of course, were your partner to be charged with any given offence, the CPS have to provide the evidence to substantiate it and in the final analysis it is up to a Court to decide who, if anyone, is guilty or innocent.
Twenty20, I think your remark is just silly: "Surely any driver should only drive at a speed where they can safely stop if there is a problem ahead? "
By your reasoning, anyone driving at night on a badly lit street would need to be doing about 3 MPH, just on the off chance that someone might appear out of nowhere and step into the road.
By your reasoning, anyone driving at night on a badly lit street would need to be doing about 3 MPH, just on the off chance that someone might appear out of nowhere and step into the road.
This accident typifies the current Driving advert where the driver constantly sees a stricken child. It's a nightmare for the driver and you have my sympathy.
I feel the collision was unavoidable due to weather & pedestrians walking on the highway and thereby causing an obstruction to traffic; an offence. The verdict should be 'accidental......' although am sure that wont ease your conscience. Every driver dreads this scenario!
I feel the collision was unavoidable due to weather & pedestrians walking on the highway and thereby causing an obstruction to traffic; an offence. The verdict should be 'accidental......' although am sure that wont ease your conscience. Every driver dreads this scenario!
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