why isnt it threeteen or fiveteen...or fiveth or threeth...as with the others...?

[joko]

i know 1 and 2 seem to get separate words like second and first...but why are 5 and 3 always written differently...? third and fifth.
fifty not fivety etc
all the others are the number with an addition like teen or ty on the end

thanks

[swedeheart]

'Third' used to be 'threeth' (spelled 'thrid' at the time.) According to the Online Etymology Dictionary "metathesis of thrid into third is attested from c.950 in Northumbria, but thrid was prevalent up to 16c". Metathesis (re-arranging the order of sounds in a word) is a very common factor in how a language develops, it's going on all the time. For instance you may have noticed that many Americans say 'aksed' instead of 'asked', and so it's quite possible that a hundred years from now no one will remember it used to be 'asked'.

[swedeheart]

...and 'five' used to be 'fif' http://www.etymonline...fifth&searchmode=none

[Quizmonster]

In Old English it WAS threotiene - threeteen - in modern English, but, as SH outlines above, that changed over the centuries until the mid-15th century when the 'r' and its accompanying vowel-sounds changed positions to become thirteen. All just part of the ever-changing nature of language.
Similarly, twelve used to be twelf and twelfth used to be twelft. This is why we have twelfth nowadays just to chime with sixth, seventh and so on. Five also used to be fif, so the 'f' always preceded the 'v' of five.
In language, nothing has stood still over the centuries, Joko.

[Quizmonster]

Ah! Your second answer wasn't there when I started pecking my first one out, SH.

[swedeheart]

Suuuure it wasn't QM ;-)

[Quizmonster]

Caught me fair and square, ma'am! (Hangs head in shame.)

[Androcles]

On my Canon scanner it comes up "Completed scanning the Oneth page, the twoth page, the threeth page etc

[swedeheart]

he he he !

[philg]

Androcles has now hoisted me onto (one of) my soapbox(es)

Lazy computer programming REALLY bugs me

I was sitting in a train the other day and the scrolling overhead sign said "Next station in .... 3 minutes"

Then

"Next station in .... 2 minutes"

Then

"Next station in .... 1 minutes"

I almost felt like screaming "IT'S ONE MINUTE NOT MINUTES YOU STUPID MACHINE"

And, as an ex-programmer, I can attest that it's really not that hard to program computers to get it right :(

[Old_Geezer]

Proof that language doesn't really evolve or develop, as claimed, it just corrupts until it no longer makes sense. Adding new words for new concepts/things is fine, changes for the sake of it, that add or improves nothing, are just ignorant errors that society tolerates, or even encourages; and should be fought against before things get any worse.

[Quizmonster]

An interesting idea, Androcles. Oneth did not even exist meaning first in Old English, as first itself came from as far back as Old Teutonic and to us via the Germanic languages. First is related to fore as in foredeck...ie the deck in front of all other decks.
The only use of oneth in English was as a variant of uneath meaning hard or troublesome...our un-easy, as it were.
Where on earth did Canon come up with that notion?

[Quizmonster]

What a strange notion, Old_Geezer! Of course language evolves...if it didn't we'd all still be saying, "Gadzooks, sirrah!" and suchlike!

[philg]

Old_Geezer
And if I hear one more sports commentator using "medal" as a verb ("He will surely medal tonight") I'll scream. Medal is a NOUN
I even heard someone from Vancouver say "She could actually podium" - arrgghhhhh

Quizmonster
Canon have obviously turned numbers into words (one, two, three, four, five etc) and just tagged "th" on the end - or maybe their (Chinese?) programmers need a dictionary?

[Old_Geezer]

And if you were brought up with it, then it would seem correct.
Just because something has corrupted it doesn't mean it has evolved.
It is change for the sake of it.

[Quizmonster]

Saying, "Gosh, old boy!" or "I say, old chap!" or even "Buqqer me, mate!" are no more corruptions that "Gadzooks, sirrah!" ever was. They simply mean that mild oaths have - like almost everything else - altered over the centuries in different ways in different communities. 'Altered', not 'corrupted'.
I'll leave it at that.

[sophie_1003]

forty only sounds the same, isn't written fourty.

[Quizmonster]

As you've moved off the silly 'corruption' theme, I think I can respond.
People keep asking why there is no ‘u' in forty, given that it is based on four. It USED to be spelt fourty at one time, but let's go back to the beginning...
In Old English, it was spelt feuortig...by the 14th century (Chaucer, for example,) it was spelt fourty... and not until the very end of the 17th century was it spelt forty. In other words, it - like multitudes of other English words - went through a process of gradual simplification over time.
(The letter I've given as 'g' in feuortig would have sounded more like the 'ch' in Johann Sebastian Bach, much as the 'g' in the German word for forty - vierzig - is.)

I do hope you're not suggesting that we all ought to return to spelling it as feuortig and pronouncing it as foyortich!

[sophie_1003]

Wouldn't like that Quizmonster but the "Gadzooks sirrah!" does quite appeal!

[KARL]

The corruption/evolution may be one and the same. There is a theory that there are two probable reasons, both working together simultaneously: one being a rebellion against "them" (anyone perceived to be a class above, including teachers in particular) by deliberately speaking unconventionally, and this is still going on (sickth in line, how are you - I'm good, lore and order, uzz not us, etc., etc. being very recent developments). The other being a tendency for obscurity as in offside and nearside of a two sided thing (not four sided - there is no onside or farside) that is in fact easily described by referring to left and right - but then everybody would instantly understand what was being talked about. But there are distinct limits to how far from the norm you can go without literally no longer speaking what will be understood by those who speak the language. Speech impediments also appear to have an effect (origin of the glottal stop ?), as do the way new rulers speak. Apparently, Dutch influence (William) has caused the letter i in English now to often be pronounced as in the pronoun I, rather than as in sing - the first being common in Dutch but the second common more or less everywhere else. The English alphabetic name for the letter i is similarly unusual while the alphabetic name for the letter e in Dutch is identical to the way native English speakers tend to mispronounce the letter e in foreign words - as ay (as in day) instead of e as in bed (most common in other languages, although there are exceptions, but more or less never as ay).

[Androcles]

So moving us to the other pronunciation puzzle

grass = Short a grass v long a "grarss"

glass - Short a glass v long a "glarss"

etc

Allegedly due to Italian influences on those doing the Grand Tour, but I am sure the knowledgable on here can correct me if I am wrong...