Roof(s)

[Bbbananas]

Why isn't the plural of roof - rooves?

[jackthehat]

It is...................:o)

But rarely used these days.

[Bbbananas]

well I've just been merrily typing away, in between AB'ing, and my computer won't accept rooves - it keeps changing it to roofs.
I thought that a bit bizarre.

[jno]

good question. Words are what people think they are, but it's odd that they say roofs but hooves. Still, when in doubt go for the more obviously 'regular' word - and adding an S is the usual way of making a plural, changing an F to a V as well is not. Although mice is the plural of mouse, do you notice how people often say mouses when they mean the computer things?

[jackthehat]

Is it UK English.................or US English ?

My bloomin' spell-checker is forever rejecting perfectly correct words because it thinks in American..............:o)

[Quizmonster]

Roofs has been the standard plural in British English since the 1600s. Milton used it in Paradise Regained, published in 1671, for example. Rooves might possibly have been used later than that, but only in dialects.

[fredpuli47]

The OED gives 'plural: roofs, rooves' We still use 'rooves' around here,but QM could be right: after all, East Anglians haven't changed much since the 1600s !

[jno]

do you spell it that way, fredpuli, or just pronounce it?

[fredpuli47]

Good question jno! We all, invariably, pronounce it 'rooves' around here (Cambridgeshire and East Anglia generally).Thinking about it, I would spell it 'roofs' , but the spelling 'rooves' is common here and nobody seems to think it antiquated. Hunting around for examples, I've just found it in an estimate from a roofing contractor.It doesn't strike me as odd, unlike, say, the American 'behooves' for 'behoves' or 'dove' for 'dived'.

[Quizmonster]

Clearly rooves is perfectly acceptable in East Anglia, Fred, and, by the same token, ruifs - pronounced and often spelt reefs - is perfectly acceptable in the north-east of Scotland. (I must confess I never heard reeves there.)

In addition to rooves, the OED also gives roaues, ruvis, roves etc as plurals at one time/place or another. However, among the illustrations of the word in the plural, all bar one later than the Miltonic one I offered earlier is roofs.

The exception? It was from a 1903 edition of Dialect Notes in America; it reads: "Roof n pl rooves a common plural in Massachussetts." It seems the eastern seaboard of the USA chimes well with the eastern seaboard of England and long may such dialectal usages continue. In such circumstances, a jobbing builder is as good a (local) authority as the OED!

[fredpuli47]

QM :Just asked a friend who's from the Trough of Boughton, Lancashire. She says that she spells it 'rooves' ! Either she's got contaminated by exposure to East Anglians or the spelling is found up there. It must be largely local , if widespread,nowadays.

[Quizmonster]

As panto season approaches, Fred, I wonder how often we'll see Snow-white and the Seven Dwarves advertised.
Definitely a no-no as far as the OED is concerned, though Chambers suggests dwarves is rare, Collins suggests it's either/or and Bloomsbury suggests dwarves as the premier spelling!
Is it any wonder people get confused?

[THECORBYLOON]

The online Chambers Dictionary says the plural of roof is "roofs or common in spoken English, but non-standard in writing rooves" (I would say roofs by the way)

[fredpuli47]

Yes QM. And how about the loaves and fishes? There must be other examples. 'Dwarves' is permitted by the Shorter OED [5th edition, 2002] by the way, though 'loafs ', as a plural of 'loaf', is not.
These may be examples of 'correct' spelling following differing pronunciations and spellings of educated people.Nobody that the compilers approved of wrote 'loafs' and none so pronounced it!

[Quizmonster]

Loafs is listed as an occasional Scottish plural. I noted that fact because I had started to wonder how I would employ the words "Use your loaf!" if I were addressing more than one person. Perhaps because I'm Scottish, I had decided I'd definitely say "Use your loafs!" and not "Use your loaves!" The latter simply sounds 'wrong' to me. (Yes, I know I could just use the singular form however many people were involved, but what if I didn't want to?)

[THECORBYLOON]

I say loafs, halfs and calfs rather than loaves, halves and calves (it makes sense to me!)

[fredpuli47]

QM The mystery of 'dwarves' may be solved.It was J R R Tolkien who used 'dwarves' for 'dwarfs' and made the new spelling popular .He'd modelled it on elf/elves. His editor solemnly corrected 'dwarves ' to 'dwarfs' at first.Tolkien's own first choice for the plural was what he called the 'historical' dwerrows or dwarrows [source: The Letters of J.R.R.Tolkien at p 138. No credit claimed. It was a contributor to the American site Answerpool who found this, in response to my enquiry !]

[jno]

I hardly like to ask, fredpuli, but in which of the several million possible ways is Trough of Boughton pronounced?

[Quizmonster]

Just as a matter of interest, the earliest recorded use of dwarves as a plural appeared in an article by W Taylor in Monthly Magazine XLVI published in 1818. The reference reads "The history of Laurin, king of the dwarves." Tolkien may well have popularised it, but he was far from being first to use it.
I think I'll call a halt there...this could go on forever!