Listener 4130 Rattle by Augeus

[Ruthrobin]

I see that trux and Starwalker have posted already, elsewhere. As I did, they quickly found the quotation and are now working hard.

[IntoTheBlue]

Just finished this one after wrestling with the alternatives for the twelve unclued answers for a couple of hours. (I wasn't helped by having an alternative for 20a that was only half supported by the BRB.)

Not a difficult grid fill apart from a couple of notable exceptions, 25d and 33a come to mind, however I felt a tad frustrated at the time taken to complete the unclued stuff.

This is the first puzzle in quite a while that I've managed to start and complete before the Wednesday/Thursday/Friday after publication because of work commitments which is why I haven't managed to post in a while...although I try and read the thread when I get the chance.

IntoTheBlue

[Arcticpenguin]

Contendo - thanks for pointing out that all 12 were in Bradfords Crossword Solvers List - I have a copy of this (complements of this very crossword) but I had only looked up C and H - hadn't thought of F. Oh well , at least it dragged it out a bit ! Obviously I need to spend time finding out exactly what's in there.

[Eril]

Liked it - but do have Bradford, so the endgame was unambiguous and the elimination of possibilities reminiscent of the number puzzles... so I can understand all the contumely even if I don't agree with it.

[borealis]

In the post, and I return to have a look at this site to find it’s an hour later than I thought.....

For once I am surprised by the posts; I found this less Augean than some of you! I enjoyed it, and didn’t find too much list-scanning was needed once one realised what was going on. It did depend on one or two inspired guesses when starting to look at the 12, but then a series of deductive entries led to a logical and conclusive finish - I’m with Eril here.

Thank you, Augeas.

[borealis]

Report to ichkeria, AndrewG-S, dr b, trux and S-matrix re 15 year olds and numericals (see previous posts under 4125 & 4126):

Stimulated by discussion here, I arranged for Oyler’s recent “Elementary Number Theory” to be given 12 x 15 year old individuals of mixed sex and above average numerical ability for 50 minutes. (hope I didn’t contravene copyright!?) They had calculators but no computers, and were allowed to work in groups or not, ad. lib. If they asked for a list of numbers,(eg primes, triangulars....) it was provided (had to do that; time constraints!) but no other assistance was given. Results: 16 clues solved, 14 correct. Which, incidentally, was more than I managed in said 50 minutes. A start was made in three different locations in the grid. I reckon they would have got most of it eventually. However, dr b, it has to be said that only 5 of the 12 confessed to having run a mile, most of them working it out in km prior to answering.

Conclusions? Well, they volunteered in the first place.....and secondly they said it was FUN. That was enough conclusion for me - Oyler, I hope you are listening!

[dr b]

Interesting, borealis. It's always nice when an empiricist comes along to sort things out.

Perhaps the "run/solve" can be turned into an Olympic event in time for 2016.

[AndrewG-S]

My daughter has parked it for the time being. I have also given it to the maths master at my sons school (13 year olds) he is going to try it on them after exams have finished so will be a few months yet. My daughter ran a mile for the Duke of Edinburgh and threw up. I am not sure what this proves and rely on the insights of dr b and Borealis to unravel. Thanks borealis for the interesting input - are any of them keen to try another (or take more time to finish it), or is it straight back to Call of Duty - Black Ops?

[tilbee]

Bellabee - hopefully Clamzy's hint was suffiicient to allow you to complete ? The literary reference at 33ac was certainly a new one for me.

[tilbee]

Those who think that the true hallmark of a Listener is the multiple layers of its final solution, must now feel very content with the end game.

(acknowledgement to Teucthter2 and his previous comment).

[Staurologist]

I don't think that we should call foul on this one. The vetters make a point of choosing puzzles of a range of difficulty, in order to satisfy a range of solving levels. If this was on the easy side for some, it is clear from some of the comments that not all have found it quite so straightforward. I for one was cock-a-hoop to finish it. Coincidentally, a book on the subject was recently given an ecstatic review in the Spectator.

[tenflags]

I have only got onto this puzzle this afternoon and as rear gunner captain slow it must of been at the 'easier' end of listeners for me to be finishing early. Whilst the clues seemed pretty straight forward there were a couple of clues which had 'sound' alternative answers (by design or not) were it not for the cross checks and quote.

Given the construction I think it is acceptable to complete any final ambiguity in this way.

I also find it interesting how some Listener themes lately have appeared in other crosswords in earlier months.

Thank you Augeas

[IainGrace]

Is there a tool on the Internet which offers anagrams where one has most, but not all, of the letters?

[dr b]

IainGrace, this one takes a little practice to get the hang of but is quite useful.

http://www.quinapalus.com/cgi-bin/match

[dr b]

It's probably a good idea to work through the examples here first:

http://www.quinapalus.com/matcher.html

[AndrewG-S]

IainGrace - search for a Scrabble solver, there are a few and they allow the use of ? for an unknown letter

[JackDeCrow]

Quite liked the idea of this crossword, but probably with the dark mutterers on how the endgame worked out. Hopefully have the right 12 (well, at least they are all in Chambers) but wasn't expecting to have to resort to the "final ambiguity" cop out for quite so many cells. 13 for me - anyone do better than that?

[perseverer]

Agree with 13. My feeling about the overall puzzle was that there were too many easy clues. I would have been happy enough with a dozen unclued entries if they had not accounted for such a large proportion of the entries - 12 out of 38.

[JackDeCrow]

Thanks perseverer - that's comforting!

[Clamzy]

Borealis - Are you (and your students) in the UK? I believe the mile is the official measure of distance here and your 15 year olds will need to be familiar with it when they start driving lessons in a couple of years time(mph speed limits):-)