Listener 4190 by Oyler

[logophile]

Another great puzzle from the mathematical master ! Solved all the down clues first, then the acrosses. Then it was great fun cutting and glueing little "dice" to get the answer - thanks Oyler ! Enjoy all the great sport this weekend folks !!

[Oyler]

Mysterons. Please consider removing your post as you've done it yet again. Can't you let solvers do things for themselves?

[logophile]

Did anyone else spot that Oyler even filled in one of the answers for us ?!

[tenflags]

Alekhine: "Not sure why people post before completion, but hey ho!"

I sometimes check in to gauge how difficult folks are finding the puzzle to give me a clue as to how much of a struggle I might find it. In this instance with talk of 'programs' and 'excel' I thought I would chip in my t'uppeny worth that it is possible to get to the fun part by application of logic to perhaps encourage some who might otherwise be put off.

If we are questioning posts - why post simply to say you have finished ?

[Alekhine]

tenflags,

Not really 'questioning' the posts, just expressing my lack of understanding.

I suppose I regard completion as a milestone worth sharing ... and with it some inference of the degree of difficulty and enjoyment experienced. Partial successes can be significant, of course, but where do we draw the line?

[tenflags]

A question most relevant to last weeks Alekhine. :-)

[alterego]

Can someone tell me what the answer to 4 across is (to [email protected]) - I'm looking at my checked numbers in the grid, and my numbers I have worked out for the letters, but my answer seems not to end with the same two digits.

[Whenland]

Alterego - email sent.

[sunny-dave]

Well that was fun - sorted the grid this afternoon & then had a Blue Peter evening in front of the football.

Numericals were the first ever Listeners I actually completed (may moons ago now), but I have come to cordially dislike them over the years. This was an exception - no grinding away with spreadsheets, just some logical deduction and then an entertaining endgame - thanks Oyler.

[JackDeCrow]

I've always been impressed by the people who can use a spreadsheet to crack these - I wouldn't know how. But, I have to say, if you have the logic required to do that, I suspect you could solve the puzzle in half the time without one! Anyway, I quite enjoyed this, and even managed with a few sketches (and a lot of trial and error) rather than a full on Blue Peter approach. Love the idea that it's all going on though!

[Alan7777]

I used the Blue Peter approach and then trial and error. It would be interesting to know if there is a 'better' (more mathematical) way of completing the final step. I'll probably have to wait a couple of weeks for Listen With Others, etc. Clever construction but not particularly difficult.

[contendo]

Mrs Contendo thought I'd finally lost it when she found me trying to assemble cubes using minute bits of Sellotape. Anyway, as I lack the necessary computer skills I found phase 1 of this one a bit of a chore but eventually arrived at a complete and coherent grid. However I've assembled 7 cubes, but cannot quite construct a cube out of what's left. Anyone else have the same problem?

[jim360]

Finally filled in the grid, and found all 8 nets, I think. Down clues are certainly easier to break into. Must have rejected the right answer for the across clues at least 5 times, though, due to the fact that I misinterpreted the preamble. Anyway, cube-making postponed until the evening.

[AndrewG-S]

I see Oyler is reading the posts so I had better be a bit careful with what I say! The grid fill could be accomplished for me by just focussing on the acrosses and applying the limitations, then fill in the blanks using the downs. Didn't need to work out all the downs but did just to make sure of the entries. This did not take very long. Spotting the shapes again was very straightforward. Then a fiddle with bits of paper to make the cube, no way could I do that in my head - could anyone? Not my favourite, but maybe if I had not used exel it would have been better, but as I was brought up on exel that feels equivalent to saying I'll see if I can do it without a calculator. Sorry Oyler for me it was a clever idea, well constructed but all fell out too quickly to make very interesting.

[Oyler]

OK Fair enough Andrew. This will be difficult to do since you already know the answer but try doing the assembly of the 2x2x2 cube without knowing where the 2 and 5 faces are!!!

[Whenland]

Contendo - I would recommend enlarging on a scanner and a trial run with a highlighters. In our case, Mrs Whenland was in charge of sellotape and final assembly, while I was on scissors duty. All done now so Azed here we come!

[Alan7777]

Oyler, I know this may sound stupid but I didn't use the positions of the 2 and 5 when assembling the 2x2x2 cube. Do the relative positions of the 2 and 5 really help that much?

[AndrewG-S]

Oyler, I imagine that would be extremely challenging, the 5/2 combination was clearly the way to start this part of the puzzle. I have my suspicions that this is what you initially proposed but got knocked back by the editors!

[logophile]

That seems unlikely, as the only way 5 and 2 can't be on adjacent faces of the larger cube is if they are opposite each other, and this would only be possible if none of the nets had 5 and 2 on opposite faces. In fact a quick inspection of opposite faces of each cube net does indeed provide a 'better' way of completing the final step Alan.

[tenflags]

As Oyler seems to reading the posts I would like to say to said setter that I liked this for a numerical one. In particular I appreciate it when logic has to be applied with a modicum of a struggle to unlock. I don't like trudging through endless combos that those with programming skills (not me) can simply attack and resolve with brute force.

I did consider trying to resolve the large cube in my head (probably not wise with my simple brain), or applying some other maths based approach, but thought actually I fancy playing with little cubes and that was fun. Especially when the dog knocked over my completed pile before I noted the result.

So Oyler with respect to AndrewG-S et al who may have wanted a longer fight with the grid, and I have some sympathy with that point, please don't take that feedback 'tooooo' much to heart and create a marathon combo fest next time up. I'm also up for a challenge but at the end of the day it should also be about fun and this certainly was.

[Oyler]

A blog will appear in 3 weeks time on Listen With Others which will hopefully explain all!!