Listener 4194, Two Little Ducks by Ben Trovato

[Zabadak]

Now that really WAS easy, though I had to work fast as I'm off out to watch England/Sweden in the company of some Spurs.
Once the first of the unclued answers drops, the rest follow without too much ado and provide lots of help for the clued ones.. Fortunately I've got lots to do this weekend.
Thanks, though, Ben - I enjoyed that much more than last weeks.

[s_pugh]

A very quick word fill and only briefly held up by the search for more members until a PDM - the preamble really does give it away if read carefully. I take it that it is mere coincidence that one of the thematic (and palindromic) members actually is one of those birds best served with a nice orange sauce?! ;¬)

[trux]

s_p: coincidence, methinks, but coincidence nonetheless. One word in crosswhit99's post is it's true inspiration...

[Staurologist]

Delighted that this one was so easy, as I have to catch a very early plane tomorrow morning to Palermo and have many other things to do before leaving. For those who are still puzzled by the title, take a hint from crosswhit99. This theme was used in a Listener puzzle as recently as 2009, and in 1987 Hand in Glove essayed something akin, in which the lights had to be entered doubly thematically. A variant of the thematic method of reading the clues (sufficiently signposted by the preamble, I think) was first used, I believe, by Salamanca in the NS. As to "ben trovato" it is defined in the OED as "Of a story, etc.: appropriate; happily invented if untrue". It comes from the old Italian phrase "Se non è vero, è molto ben trovato", i.e. "Even if it's not true, it is a happy invention" (literally "well found"). You will find it, for example, in Humphry Clinker (1771): "Your fable of the monkey and the pig, is what the Italians call ben trovata [sic]." [For a hint about "Taste and Fancy" see my posting at that thread.]

[Cloverjo]

Will someone tell me what BRB means, please?
I know this will make me sound rather dim, but I am keen to know.
Ta.

[sunny-dave]

Big Red Book - the Chambers Dictionary which is used by compilers and solvers of this crossword

[sunny-dave]

... and you're certainly not dim - I had to ask too when I started here.

[Cloverjo]

Ah, thanks.

[Texasetes]

As is often the way, enlightenment hit me almost as soon as I picked up the puzzle today. My problem had been with the preamble, which misled me in a possibly unintentional way, but if it were a clue I suppose I'd consider it fair.

[bobbycollins]

Greetings from the back of the class.

I found that hard work before the PDM, admittedly pretty straightforward thereafter. Sussed the method of across entries fairly early so yet another Doh moment at the PDM. Can't be bothered with the word searches.

Anybody else in the "C" stream this week?

[alterego]

Can someone please tell me what a pdm is?
I am new to this whole thing and am forever confused when it crops up in so many posts. Thank you

[Philoctetes]

Ateego - Penny Dropping Moment or some such

[Philoctetes]

(My keyboard keeps withholding letters - sorry Alterego :( )

[Cloverjo]

Incidentally, there was a columnist of a South African newspaper a few years ago called Ben Trovato. I don't know his real name, but when I looked up the meaning of his pseudonym at the time I got 'well hung'.

[Cruncher]

Doh - PDM at last. I had thought of so many much more elaborate ways of disentangling the hidden members from the clues. Try the simple ones first! Otherwise a straightforward fill and I enjoyed 26dn when I finally understood the wordplay.

[contendo]

Ben has a brother called Mal.

[word_cross]

I actually found the clues quite hard to get into for some reason (not helped by my initial reading of the preamble which I understood to mean the across clues were written thematically, rather than the entries!) - but all came together swiftly once the theme was spotted.

[Whenland]

All done here. Mrs W found the theme leading to a quick grid fill then, like others, we struggled for a while to find the "yet more members." Strange when you know how many you need and exactly what they are! Thanks to BT for a thoroughly enjoyable challenge.

[Deviant]

I really don't think that counts as "thematic reading". I'd have never got it without the advice to ignore that phrase. All done now. Quite fun, if fairly easy fill.

[crosswhit99]

Not the easiest words to spot without prior knowledge of the theme even if hidden 'conventionally' - hindsight is always helpful !

[magichour]

I thought this was going to defeat me until I finally realised I had a wrong answer which was misleading me about the entry method of the across answers. Once the penny dropped, it was fairly straightforward from then on. I found the last stage easier than many here, it seems - but knowing what you are looking for helps. A nice puzzle with good use of the thematic material.