Listener 4216 - Evens by Elap

[crosswhit99]

Another great puzzle from the master of numericals with a logical entry point and steady progression from thereon in - all fair and square !

[dr b]

Agreed; filling the grid not as daunting as the preamble!! But an enjoyable numerical workout.

[logophile]

Yes, one of those puzzles that became progressively easier, especially once the thematic property and full significance of the title became apparent - thanks Elap !

[British_Olympics]

Looks like quite a select group for the Friday Club this week !

[jim360]

Well, assuming I can trust my arithmetic, I have a full grid up to the six inevitably missing squares. There's a fairly obvious thing "otherwise missing" that presumably has something to do with the connection. But I can't for the life of me find what that might be. Sigh...

[Alekhine]

It was interesting enough, but with a predictable end-game and some limited options in the clue-play.

Is anyone else disappointed that these numericals seem never to go beyond simple arithmetic manipulations? Oh, for some quadratic equations or trigonometric functions ... or even matrices.

I'm sorry. It's over now. I don't know what came over me.

[Ruthrobin]

Z-cup again Alekhine! I only looked in to see how you were all doing. I would prefer 52 proper cross WORDS annually (those were cross words!)

[olichant]

For those who are looking for a few - y'know - *words* for their weekend fix... might I suggest this neat puzzle from Schadenfreude? http://www.alumni.cam...m/cam67/saccomala.pdf

That said, I am determined to knuckle down and address my fear of numericals, not least after my shameful performance on Sad Hummer.

[fortyseven]

Delightful puzzle with a clear logical path, never involving any great leaps of complicated mathematics along the way. And the penultimate sentence of the preamble leads to a (for me) unforeseen and satisfying conclusion. Many thanks to Elap for this. Is it just my gut feeling or have the recent numerical puzzles been more enjoyable?

[crosswhit99]

Well certainly this one was, and if you don't twig that which would otherwise be missing before the final 6 empty cells jim, at first sight there are two, not just one possibility for that 'item'. That penultimate sentence is indeed key !

[jim360]

Well the preamble tells me enough, I think, to draw the two lines independent of the empty squares. Problem is I have tried almost every possible connection I can think of to do with that result. Occasionally several of the sides appear to have a connection (especially their positions relative to prime numbers) but always one or two of my side lengths then break this pattern, and anyway with that logic the 8-digit numbers in the grid would also be near primes, and who's going to be expected to look up tables of prime numbers between 10- and 100 million?

Row 3 starts off highly suggestive of a much simpler link with what I think I'm expected to draw, but by the end it suddenly breaks down.

[crosswhit99]

It sounds like you have the two lines jim, but there isn't actually a direct connection between what they represent and the thematic property of the 17 numbers and square sides, as I'm sure you have by now realised. One of your two lines is doubly thematic - this should be why you chose it over any of the other 15 possibilities.

[emcee]

I think, to be fair to the setter, there shouldn't be any hints on here for a numerical puzzle. It's OK to give some help for a clue in a word puzzle but any hints on a numerical is likely to give the whole game away.

The setter has gone to much trouble (I'd imagine) to produce an excellent puzzle so PLEASE no spoiling it here!

I'd love to know how Elap (and others) produce such amazing numerical puzzles. How or where do you begin to construct such?

Many thanks Elap for overheating my calc.

[jim360]

At the moment the only reason I've chosen anything is because of what is evidently missing from the grid I have so far. My empty squares remain empty so that I cannot see why only one of the rows/ columns is doubly thematic, any more than I can see why only two of the side lengths is doubly thematic. No idea of the theme! I'm just guessing where the lines should go. There appears to me to be nothing simple connecting the rows and columns and sides I do have - so either I've managed to construct a wholly wrong but consistent alternative fill, or I'm heading up a blind alley.

Must be missing something incerdibly obvious. The problem as I say is that so far all connections that appear to lead somewhere only hold for some of the sides, and not all of them. Sigh...

[cruciverbali]

Yes, probably best not even to draw attention to them emcee - if you need any more private nudges feel free to drop an e-mail to:

[email protected]

[AHearer]

As ever with the numericals, an overall feeling of "how do they do it?" All fell logically into place from a fairly easy starting point -- but it still took me at least four times as long as it should have!

[Mysterons]

jim, I'd reached the same point as you when I realised that none of the numbers as presented in the grid and only 3 of the squares' side lengths share the thematic property. The second half of the preamble's sixth sentence revealed how the others are related.

[jim360]

Anyway, all sorted now. Would that I'd seen the connection before embarrassing myself by burbling on about primes...

[Ruthrobin]

In the Saturday club after most of the day spent working on this. My share was working through lists of I'd better not say what, but not primes jim360. Oh for a lovely verbal puzzle next week (I shall regret that - it will probably be carte blanche with misprints, jumbles, no symmetry, no word lengths and a playfair square). I am on the verge of quitting to 'get a life'.

[tilbee]

Too busy packing this weekend for a well earned break a long way from the Times, BRB and Internet, so will catch up with all in 3 weeks, by which time I am sure that the withdrawal symptoms will be kicking in.