Ev 1063: Reform By Mynot

[jim360]

It took a while to sort out the perimeter on this one. Eventually the penny dropped once I saw how the left-hand side of the grid would work. I've got the source on my iPod somewhere, which helped a lot to finish the rest off!

A few very nice clues but I also haven't sorted out everything that's going on in the down clues, though I know what the instructions have to be. Also puzzled by that "9" in the top right corner. Still, overall a nice puzzle with a theme I enjoy a lot so thanks MynoT!

[jim360]

Any chance you could drop the cheating thing already? Asking for help from a better solver is hardly cheating.

[DocHH]

Hello all, sorry to disappoint you, but there is more than the perimeter to shade in! Reference to ODQ should resolve the anomoly! As ever our friend symmetry is at hand!

[Garaman]

“Asking for help from a better solver is hardly cheating.”! Have I woke up in a parallel crossword universe?

You gave up after four hours (which I think is pathetic for a fairly tough themed crossword) and asked for answers on Crossword Clue Solver and by your own admission got some answers sent to you. You then open the post here and mention how the penny dropped but fail to mention that actually you gave up and others helped. It turns out that you still have screwed it up but now claim a moral victory!

It is about honesty Jim360, your opening post should have read something like ‘I got stuck on this one but thanks to some help…’ That would not then have been cheating (as long as you didn’t submit it) though under no circumstances should you have been claiming a victory, moral or otherwise.

You write in another post that you might be on track to get to next year’s Listener dinner as one of the top solvers, I intend to be there too and it will be very interesting to hear what the others solvers think of this view. Should they agree with you I would be very happy to apologise and drop the cheating claim.

[devadolly]

Hey! What's going on here? I've only just begun this week's EV (thanks to my annual toxic infusion and the very nasty side effects) and thought I would see what was the N & C on the subject. As ever, my brain is working very sluggishly and I was hoping for some of the delightful enigmatic hints and nudges from our chatterers to help me solve it in my usual slow and bumbling way.....................instead, it would seem I have stumbled on a war zone - pack it in! Who cares who solved it first? Who cares if one wishes to Google everything in sight, or if one prefers to get as far as one can by old-fashioned dectective work and (God forbid) the use of books. For years this site has been a friendly site which has developed a method of offering hints to anyone who was stuck without giving the game away and incorporating some humourous gossip & chat, those who don't want that - go and fight somewhere else.
I will now apologise to anyone I have offended and forgive those who have offended me and try and see if I can do this week's EV!

[Christiana]

Hear, hear, well said, devadolly. I like this thread precisely because it is civilised and witty and not a war zone.
DocHH, as I remarked, I must pay attention in class and read the instructions (and the quotation) properly!

[Garaman]

I apologise to those regulars who I have annoyed and will indeed move on and let you carry on with your socialised chat. I have no problem whatsoever with solvers getting help and think that you handle it superbly on this site. I do though have a problem when solvers who want to be taken seriously as all-correct solvers think that includes receiving answers when it shouldn’t. Jim360 is one of the brightest young stars of the crossword world and represents the future as I see it so I just hope that he carries with it some of the long-standing traditions.

Anyway, I have said far too much and will leave you in peace, apologies again I didn’t mean to cause a war-zone.

[devadolly]

Well now, I have managed most of the grid with the exceptions of 30 & 37d & 38 & 40a which are making little sense. As ever, I have probably got quite a few wrong omissions/additions because the middle of the instruction is making little sense and the perimeter looks decidedly dodgy. Some erudite hints please N & C'ers.
Thank you for your kind words Christina, how's the garden? You must have forgotten what the soil looks like in your neck of the woods.
Garaman, I'm not sure I totally understand your last post........but then, as I said, I generally stumble along with no great aspitations of understanding for most things. However, I think the EV is enough of a competition in itself without having to score off other solvers. If that is the future for crosswords, how sad!

[jim360]

I'm flattered that you think of me as one of the "brightest young stars" Garraman. I'm not really good enough, just yet, to solve every EV/ Listener independently 100% of the time. I'm getting closer to that, though! If even now this means a few hints, well, I'm getting far far fewer than I did just 6 months ago so hopefully am moving in the right direction.

Incidentally, the guy who gave me some help on this one has asked me for help in return on occasion (particularly on numerical Listeners) so it's not just a one-way street of help! In turn I was giving help on this one, and previous EV's, to another new solver. Hopefully in a year or two, or possibly closer to five, I won't be needing any help at all.

[Manxiemo]

Believe it or not there is no snow here, devadolly. But it is bitterly cold and windy and I venture to the back of the garden only to visit the log store. I have sown a few seeds which are cluttering up the conservatory - but that was probably a mistake. They are huddling together for warmth and looking miserable. The garden is full of snowdrops, though - a cheering sight, best viewed through glass!

[Manxiemo]

Apologies - I (Christiana) am on my friend, Manxiemo's laptop, and quite forgot she is logged in for this site.

[devadolly]

Good for you Jim360! I just hope I never get to the stage where I don't need help.
You are lucky then Christina (disguised as a Manx cat) we have friends in Grayingham who seem to attract snow. Our snowdrops finished a couple of weeks ago and I am now sheltering the potted magnolias in a greenhouse as they are in full bloom and should be gracing the back door but it is far too bitterly cold.
Any hints on this obscure looking perimeter anyone?

[jim360]

It's hard to guess at the full phrase if you don't know it, and the starting point of the perimeter is unusual. Try focusing on the left-hand side - a three-word phrase starting near the bottom of the left row may help you get going.

[Manxiemo]

Not good at hints, dd, but it doesn't start top left.

[devadolly]

Thank you Christina (DAAMC) & Jim 360 will stare a while longer!

[kayakamina]

DD

I have kept out of the way while things quietened down and
hope I don't stir it up again by telling you that the quote starts
at the bottom of 25d and runs clockwise from there.

[devadolly]

Thank you K, I had a partial breakthrough after correctly guessing the NW corner word and hitting the ODQ. Now just have to try and work out some more of those elusive letters. 30d looks most peculiar....ergo .......30a has to be wrong???? But it can't be? Mutter, mutter, mutter.............

[Twit-Who]

30d words are not English, Devadolly, but they are in BRB - very near those pesky pages in the middle. Sod's law you'll go to the wrong side of them.

[jim360]

I don't have the quote beginning at the bottom of 25d - further along to the right is the start I have.

[devadolly]

Thgank you TW, quite right, the wrong side to begin with! I do find that central section in the current edition of the BRB very annoying, I wish they had positioned it with the appendices.
My quotation definately begins at the bottom of 25d Jim360, the previous line doesnt fit at all. Now I can't work out which way the 'word' at the bottom travels W -E; E -W??? Also still struggling with the instruction, middle bit being very irritating.

[jim360]

The way I have it is that my perimeter begins in the bottom right, then jumps to the word underneath the grid, continues elsewhere and then resumes starting at 25d. That is probably revealing far too much and if so, sorry.