Refusal To Donate Organs, Means Also You Can't Receive?

[joko]

This article is of course a joke, but it raises and interesting point.

http://newsthump.com/2013/04/11/morons-still-keen-to-retain-decomposing-organs-after-death/

if you opt out, you are opting out entirely - from giving and receiving.


would those who refuse to donate organs change their tune if they were told they also couldn't receive one?
you get what you give.

does refusal also imply that you wouldn't like someone elses organs in you either?

obviously with freedom of choice this would never become a rule - but should it?

even though its ridiculous, i understand somewhat people with religious reasons - even though its not really their own choice, its down to the rules of the religion - but i think people who won't just for reasons such as "it's icky", or they just don't like the sound of it etc ... should they be faced with this prospect?

should it be an opt out, rather than an opt in system?

cheers

[gness]

I believe organ donation should be opt out. Any adult not prepared to donate should not be allowed to receive.
This would have prevented my husband from receiving a kidney when he unexpectedly needed one because he had refused to opt in despite nagging from me...but so be it, it was his choice. He did redeem himself somewhat by getting many people to register and we were both so grateful for the kidney he received but I still believe if you are not prepared to donate you should not receive an organ if you need one.
I don't know if it is a system that would work though because most of us don't think we will ever be in need of a donated organ.

[jomifl]

Islam apparently forbids the donation of organs either before or after death. However it is OK to receive organs so the only way muslims get organ transplants is through the generosity and selflessnes of infidels. Whether the infidel organs are allowed into paradise is an interesting philosophical point. Still, since to qualify for paradise you have to be dead you probable don't take your mortal body (or bits of anyone else) with you.

[woofgang]

A practical problem that I could see is what would happen if you received an organ then opted out. Would they then remove the organ? There would also be the issue about a person who had opted in then at death, his or her NOK refused permission for the organs to be harvested, as things stand, I believe that the NOK "owns" the body

[woofgang]

There would need to be a much more sophisticated and inclusive NHS computer system to make it workable, also it wouldn't stop the wealthy going abroad for transplants.

If the rule was changed to "opt out, then I would opt out and i am honestly not sure that i would accept a transplant.

[Canary42]

The same rule should apply in the case of Blood.

If you don't give regularly then you shouldn't receive.

[woofgang]

again canary, there are many reasons why people cannot donate blood or had to stop, including age. Would you allow donations for people who had given but needed to stop and if so, how much would they have had to give? What would you do about people who hadn't donated? would you let them die? (oh look transplant problem solved)
In my youth/middle age I donated 25 pints but had to stop at menopause because I started to pass out so they stopped me going.

[LazyGun]

I think the idea of presumed consent is an interesting one, and one I would have no issue with, but i can imagine many might. It does raise the spectre of recently deceased individuals having their organs harvested against the wishes of the family.

And the idea that you can only receive and organ if you are prepared to donate has the benefit of fairness, but would be almost impossible to enforce. It is worth pointing out the hypocrisy in being willing to receive an organ but to be unwlling to donate one, however....

I think it likely we will continue with the existing system,but they may elect to spend more money in publicity campaigns highlighting the benefits and investing in more specialty nurses, who have had a huge impact on numbers of organs available for donation.

And the religion thing is interesting. I think it is only Islam that has not actively supported the idea of organ donation - even the official line from the Jehovahs Witnesses support organ donation. There are Islamic principles that support the notion of transplantation, so more education and a greater cultural awareness is necessary.

[jake-the-peg]

That doesn't appear to be entirely correct JOMFL

http://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/newsroom/fact_sheets/religious_leaflets/islam_and_organ_donation/islam_and_organ_donation.pdf

[Canary42]

No wolf, I wouldn't deprive you of one of my 100 pints (and I've stopped due to age now anyway).

I was really playing Devil's Advocate to highlight the impracticality of the original proposal.

[DangerUXD]

I'm an atheist and I'm not a donor for obvious reasons. I accept the maxim as portrayed.

[BRIGHT SPARK]

Can we play by the same rules on benefit claims?

[LazyGun]

@Danger - "I'm an atheist and I'm not a donor for obvious reasons. I accept the maxim as portrayed."

What are the obvious reasons for not being a donor.
What maxim are you accepting? Would you accept an organ donation if you required it?

[emmie]

many people who may want to be donors are not eligible, nor indeed can give blood. So does that mean if they are unable to donate organs, they would be refused one if it was needed, that doesn't seem correct.
You should have your wishes adhered to, if you don't wish to be a donor, whatever the reason, religious, personal, then that should be it. Sign a document saying so however, the state shouldn't be empowered to take body organs unless the persons expressly says that they wish it and carries a card to that effect.

[LazyGun]

@Em - so is it hypocritical then to accept an organ transplant, if you have refused to be a donor for personal or religious reasons, do you think?

I would agree with you that it should however be entirely down to the individual, and that the best system is for the prospective donor to have positively opted to be a donor, rather than just presumed to be unless they opt out....

[DangerUXD]

I don't trust the "donation" system.
the maxim is that in the OP. I accept that if I'm not a donor I cannot be a donee.

[gness]

That wouldn't happen Em. If a person could, but chooses not to be a potential donor then they should not be able to go on the transplant list if the situation arose.
I have a donor card but am unable, for medical reasons, to give blood. That wouldn't prevent me receiving blood if necessary.

[emmie]

so what you are essentially saying is anyone choosing not to be a donor for whatever reason is not entitled to get any kind of organ transplant that might be needed. Has this happened in the past, or a new idea..

canary's idea that if you don't regularly donate blood you shouldn't be entitled to blood transfusions is wrong, morally if nothing else. If you were involved in a car accident and needed blood, how are the emergency services going to know you were a blood donor or not.

[LazyGun]

@ Danger - what do you mean when you say you do not trust the "donation" system?

And kudos to you if you would genuinely refuse, say the donation of a liver if it would save your life.For myself, I do not think you would think that way were you in that situation...

So for those that might have personal or ethical reasons for not being an organ donor - what about the next best thing - would you be a blood donor? And would you reject a blood transfusion had you decided not to be a blood donor for personal or religious reasons?

[gness]

Em...I do believe if you are not prepared to donate organs after death you should not be considered for transplant should you need one. An unworkable theory I know but it's how I feel about organ donation.

[LazyGun]

@ Em you didn't answer this question, you may have missed it

- "@Em - so is it hypocritical then to accept an organ transplant, if you have refused to be a donor for personal or religious reasons, do you think? "

Not only hypocritical - it could be considered immoral too, don't you think?