Listener Crossword 4242: Killer Queen By Gwizardry

[jim360]

At times this was deeply frustrating -- after making a lot of progress all at once I lost track of what I knew and what I didn't. Eventually managed to make the breakthrough once I made use of a real pack of cards. So much easier to perform the shuffling with objects you can touch rather than in your head or on paper!

Mind you, this is the oddest Listener I've seen so far. I wonder what those who aren't exactly fans of numericals will make of this one. I enjoyed it, overall. And while the final step is optional, it makes the puzzle just much more complete to finish it. Thanks to gwizardry for a wonderful exercise in logic!

[u10]

Anyone who has been solving Listener crosswords as long as me (43 years!) will remember a superb series of themed card game puzzles by the much missed setter Leon. This one looks like it is just as difficult and frustrating as many of his crosswords.

[dr b]

It was immediately clear what needed to be done, but the prospect of doing it seemed so tedious that I decided to pass on this one, for now. Too bad as I normally enjoy the numericals.

[Cloverjo]

I was pleased when I saw this as I like the numericals, but this is an odd one. I have ground to a halt with about half the grid complete. Will crack on, though.

[Anapice]

This one raises an intriguing thought. Suppose you take the option to enter the required phrase and make an error in doing so. Wouldn't it be safer not to take the chance.

[IainGrace]

We'll skip this one, thanks.

[crosswhit99]

This was indeed an unusual puzzle, and fell into that category of advanced thematics whose final stage (in this case optional !) if solved early on in proceedings provides extra assistance with the subsequent gridfill.

I must admit I did think it was going to be quite tough until I realised that all the cards appear just once, which presumably means that the deck was never shuffled and the game was pure chance !

[pushmi-pullyu]

Not even going to try this one. Would rather spend the weekend puzzling over my quilting project.

[starwalker]

This was going so well. I even had the title sorted out by the half way mark, before realising that I had gone wrong somewhere. Oh well, let's start again. I may resort to Jim's idea of using a real deck.

[Ruthrobin]

We're using a real deck and have the title, but are still struggling.

[Cruncher]

I'm not very smart on cards and poker. Can I ask a question and if it's deemed too overt perhaps someone could email me at [email protected]
My understanding is that although an ace ranks highest it scores lowest and so therefore if one hand was, for example, a straight of A,K,Q the cards would be listed KQA = 13 12 1. Is that correct. Seems a bit weird!

[jim360]

Ace always counts as high in this game, so AKQ would appear AKQ and not KQA.

[Ruthrobin]

And it was a struggle for non poker players but we finally made it. Intriguing that Gwizardry managed to create a puzzle and be sure that he/she has a unique solution.

[Cruncher]

Thanks Jim360. I guess if you have a solution then you must be right. But the preamble does state that "each player's hand is ordered by decreasing face value" which would suggest that an ace should be in final position?

[jim360]

Equally, that would suggest that queens always come last except in pairs, which is an impossibility as the clues clears show that Queens come not in the third or sixth rows but in the 2nd and 5th. No, the ordering in terms of face value is:

A K Q J 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2

unambiguously.

[Cruncher]

Ok - fair enough

[dylan123]

jim360 did you mean "columns", not "rows"?

[Spoonboy]

As many people still like to think 2 plus 2 equals five, we ought to leave it there.

[jim360]

Yeah I did dylan -- whoops!

Hmm, spoonboy?

[sunny-dave]

I think he stumbled in from the playpen, jim.

Haven't started this yet - I usually like 'numericals' and can see some access points to this. Good idea about using a real deck of cards.

[jim360]

By the way, is it "deck" or "pack" in this country?