Listener 4272 - Bun Fight By Kea

[TheBear69]

Thanks for a good challenge, Kea. It was a nice challenge to determine the answers that had extra letters and not easy to get the two items from the extra letters.

I am a bit concerned about what I feel is ambiguity in the instruction. Are we supposed to write beneath the grid:

a) The word (obtained from the unused extra letters) that describes the goings-on

or

b) The goings-on itself.

The GOINGS-ON: label would suggest b) but I fear it's a) to prove we got that word...

[perseverer]

There is (not a lot) more than one "logical" "correct" way of carrying out the movement instruction, but you have to choose the way which gives 19 non-words.

[jim360]

Thing with that, perseverer, is that there are still maybe four ways of generating 19-non words. There is only one logical thematic choice, though.

[Cagey]

Of course there is... Did not notice that. Alas, already posted. 50% chance have one movement wrong, cannot quite remember.

[Ruthrobin]

I fear that we have overstepped the mark of what is tolerated on this thread and that explanations are being offered rather readily. Yes, I live in a glass house too - but we should try to maintain the standards we impose on ourselves. It distresses setters when things are spelled out.

[teuchter2]

I don't think you need to worry about giving things away. I have a completed grid, but no idea where I am going next, although I can see three possible names. I have taken this one slowly and not been too enthusiastic about it thus far.

[Contrarian]

Quite tough final stage. The movement of the letters is tricky, but it surprises me that people are unsure of what to write at the bottom of the puzzle. To me it seems perfectly clear.

[iamamoose]

A lovely puzzle with no ambiguities at all that I can see. Nice one Kea!

[EAChaplin]

Thanks RR - There is of course the other side of the coin where comments in an AB thread can throw solvers off the scent and this thread in particular is a fine example.

[doctormatt]

Excellent! Just one small uncertainty about "the" word... Thanks for an excellent puzzle.

[tramart]

Almost fitted my preferred Sunday to Thursday solve, having finished yesterday. Why anyone would want to rush through a Listener on a Friday night is beyond me, let alone posting it as soon as it's 'finished'. There again I do few other crosswords.

I saw no ambiguity in the final placement as it was entirely logical.

As for giving things away - something nearly always is, but,of course, nowhere near as clumsily as elsewhere. To suggest that hints here will only benefit those who have already seen a 'problem' is naive. It's only a game, a pastime so anyone ascribing anything more to it than that needs help - no need to name the pious types I have in mind.
I only visit here once finished or stuck, but then only after some days (I no longer submit).

[olichant]

Tramart, you make some good points. As someone who self-identifies as - I don't know, 40-50% pious - and who only rarely manages to get to the end of a Listener on the day it is published - may I add my thoughts?

I think you're right that pretty much any discussion of a puzzle like this can give information away to a solver who has engaged with it, but not yet finished it. That said, I personally really, really like the balance that is struck on this board. It's purely a matter of taste (which, of course, can't be disputed) but I for one come here because I can see feedback from posters whose views I respect, and interest me.

And there is real self-discipline about not giving the theme or other details away. As you point out, that does happen elsewhere. Whilst I shudder at the thought of censoring what other people freely share openly on the internet, that sort of thing (to my mind) really misses the point of what these puzzles are all about. But, for all that, they are puzzles, and their raison d'etre is to be enjoyed. As you very rightly say, it's only a game. That said, it must be galling to a setter to see the punchline to their joke, and other spoilers, casually and explicitly splashed out on an internet discussion forum.

For all of that, I for one would value others' opinions about some of the detail of this puzzle! With that in mind, I'll open a thread on the Friday when the Listen With Others and George v the Listener blogs comes out, if I may.

Just my (fairly irrelevant) opinion. And, that regardless, Happy Christmas to everyone here.

[trux]

Have not been on this site since last weekend and i have today enjoyed reading through the interesting discussion about AB ethics. With reference to this puzzle, I suspect that Kea's original idea and design produced the desired result but then the editorial committee noticed that there were multiple possibilities and so agreed to add the 19 non-word sentence to the preamble to fix a unique logical submission grid. Perhaps either a) just highlighting (and allowing leeway as to placement of letters so long as they spelled out what was required) or b) a design modification with a consistent way of entering the second letters in relation to those in the initial gridfill ... might have been more elegant. I feel that the actual endgame has somewhat detracted from a fine puzzle idea and hope few (ideally no) submitters get caught out by it....

[Cruncher]

Friday night club - just the second Friday rather than the first. Like at least one other person on here I found an entirely plausible answer to one of the across clues which generated the wrong discard letters and whilst I could see where this was going with both the items and the goings-on word I could only make it work by using dodgy spellings for the thematic items that were not in Chambers. All sorted now I think. Anyway it's in the post