Listener Crossword No 4276 Fore And Aft By Poat

[BobHWW]

I thought this was a reasonably straightforward offering from Poat. Fairly obvious what was going on from an early stage but none the worse for that. Just a few wordpalys to resolve and then it's back to Mr Magoo and Arden in the Magpie. Thanks Poat.

[trux]

Indeed and agreed, BobHWW. Quite a quick gridfill and all slotted into place (barring the ambiguities, which equally resolved themselves satisfactorily). Wonderfully ingenious composition but perhaps one where the setter is more pleased than the solver? And some highly creative "modifications" and some neat clues. Many thanks to Poat; I stand in awe of the construction.

[Ruthrobin]

Yes, indeed - can only agree with that. This became fun as we progressed.

[jim360]

Straightforward? Oh. I'm struggling, not got a clue what's going on at all yet.

[olichant]

Most enjoyable. Thanks, Poat.

I'd be interested to hear what you think of the Mr Magoo in the Magpie, BobHWW - for my money, it was much harder than a Grade C...

[dr b]

"What to do" became apparent pretty quickly, but I was about halfway through doing it when I noticed what the setter had done. I too am in awe of the construction; I just wish that matching the modified words to their definitions was somehow needed to have a correct grid fill.

[trux]

@Olichant: yes, agreed - the Mr Magoo was much harder than the Ploy - and probably their ratings should have been the other way round. I would also give a plug for the Schadenfreude which is a thing of pure aesthetic beauty even if it is not too hard to solve (and should imho have been POTM).

[trux]

@dr B: perhaps there should have been a double box below the grid in which solvers had to write the "modification" letters in order for the Acrosses and the Downs ... I haven't yet bothered to work them all out but am 100% confident that I have the right grid for submission

[cluelessJoe]

re Magpie, I thought the Magoo was fine but maybe anticipation counts for a lot. The Ploy should probably have been a C too. Schadenfreude's was undoubtedly aesthetically spot-on but was probably not POTM as the same theme and symbology has been seen at least once before so it scored low on originality (... though placement was not as perfectly executed in the one that I recall). As for the Arden - are you seriously going back to it BobHWWW? - it deserves its E grade for the preamble alone, no way can I contemplate touching it.

[olichant]

Trux - agreed re the Schadenfreude - and, to my shame, I only really appreciated the elegance when I was transcribing the solution into the submission grid. I am still one piece of shading short on "a little light entertainment". And, like cluelessjoe, the preamble to the Arden has scared me off, unless I am told that the result will repay the evident pain.

Sorry to hijack the Poat thread to talk about the Magpie! In fact - is there a regular Magpie Answerbank thread?

[perseverer]

Eventually worked my way through the modifications. Tend to agree that setter will get more satisfaction with construction than solver but you do have to admire the construction.

[AHearer]

Thanks, Poat, for a very intricate construction and clear clues. I agree with Dr B that it would have been nice to have something other than one's own satisfaction to drive one to match all the modifications and definitions -- but it's worth completing to see how well the whole thing works.

[Contrarian]

Another very simple one to keep up the number of 100%ers.

[starwalker]

I gave up on trying to match all of the modifications, but am happy with my two grids. More a setter's puzzle than a solver's, but still an impressive construction for all that. Thanks Poat, and now, back to the Magpie, leaving Arden until last.

[tilbee]

All mappings of modified words to their definitions completed and wordplays justified, but somehow failed to encounter any ambiguities, so think I will need to revisit this as least for my own satisfaction.

[emcee]

I didn't think it was *that* straightforward. Some of the clues were devilish (I enjoyed the first 1d clue when the penny dropped). Most of my time has been spent understanding all the wordplays, and double-checking the mappings.

It's definitely a fault that someone can still get a correct solution without really having done much -- if any -- of the endgame.

Thanks, Poat, for a decent slog.

[jim360]

Finally entered the last clue a few minutes ago. Credit to Poat for some (for me, at least) very tough clues.

[Ruthrobin]

I think it is well worth the effort of completing the task and working out all that Poat has done. It really is an achievement. I am perfectly happy to go beyond a simple gridfill to really appreciate the subtlety of brilliant piece of compilation.

[IainGrace]

Agree with Ruthrobin. One ought to do the matching/endgame as a cross check, given the alphabetical completeness.

[Scorpius]

I started this late (long gone are the days when I started the Listener as soon as it appeared). I haven't finished but I've seen what's going on and am half-through the matching, which is confirming some answers whose wordplay I don't fully understand.
I totally disagree that the puzzle might have been more fun for the setter than the solver, except perhaps for those solvers who are hard to please. I'm thoroughly enjoying matching things up - it all adds to the cryptic fun. It's an excellent puzzle in all respects.

[upsetter]

Thanks to Trux for articulating our sentiments so elegantly.