Listener 4297 - Tetris By Aramis

[TheBear69]

What a magnificent puzzle! I hope this one is remembered when the puzzle of the year vote is made. It will be hard to top. Thanks, Aramis!

[IainGrace]

Despite praise for this, not sure we will attempt it. No idea what Tetris is and the rubric reads like a foreign language.

[olichant]

Just out of interest, does it "count" from the point of view of the checking rules if answers are checked with unclued phrases that have to be deduced?

I'm not complaining either way (I'm just curious). I loved this puzzle.

[Scorpius]

IainGrace, I didn't know what it was either. Tetris is a computer game. Check Wikipedia and other internet sites. You might then begin to make sense of the rubric. I wonder what JG, who spurns computers, will make of it.

[IainGrace]

Thanks, Scorpius. Not for us, I think.

[trux]

IG, there are two of you. It's a splendid puzzle with very precise rules ... do persevere if you can ...

[Cagey]

Finally finished last night. I have had that blasted theme music as an ear worm since Friday night. Hopefully now it will fade into the background noise.
This was a difficult slog. It was a relief to tackle the EV immediately after and feel good about self (also an enjoyable, and thankfully easier, puzzle)

Happy birthday Tetris!

[iamamoose]

I liked this one a lot. One of those teasing ones where you have to solve the first half forwards, and the second half backwards (if you know what I mean) - thanks Aramis!

[Staurologist]

Impressive construction, I agree, and a good way to celebrate the 30th anniversary of the creation of Tetris. However, I have some sympathy with Scorpius's comments about the clues. I found that in too many cases I had to work back from the answer in the grid to the construction of the clue, instead of the other way round. I also thought that a good opportunity had been missed to add colour, by asking solvers to shade the shapes using the original Tetris colours.

[Cagey]

Unfortunately Tetris was originally in black and white on a computer (Soviet DVK-2) that only produced text-type characters. Only colour later when PC conversion done.

[tilbee]

Checking in to read others' comments (no bookmark just a search for Listener + number), I accidentally selected the "other place". I now truly appreciate the constraint exercised on this forum by contributors, but now feel we are fighting a losing battle.

I do not want to start yet another debate on the acceptability or otherwise of giving hints to engage new solvers, but do recognise that those who contribute here appreciate the generally perceived acceptability of comments on this thread, and their adherence thereto.

[Orientfan100]

I'll happily confess, I do look at the other site and use the hints. The sheer volume of guidance on this puzzle is slightly unusual and reflects its difficulty. In my defence: I have a very busy job, three kids and a wife who looks at me with barely disguised disgust when I get the BRB out, I play sport at weekends and have several other time-consuming interests. Initially the comments on this and the other site are useful as a gauge of whether I will have enough spare time to bother attempting the puzzle; and if it's a good theme and clever construction I want to try and solve it. I'm not a 'top solver' so any help obtained is not going to distort the league table. Each to their own, I say. The risk is that the number of entries will dwindle and the harsh realities of publishing mean the puzzle will become a subscription-only online offering. Some may prefer that to the alternative of attracting more people into tackling it; not me, however.

[jim360]

Can go either way, I think. We should welcome new solvers to the field. But the emphasis there is on "solvers", I'd have thought. Giving the answer away is welcoming new "people-to-submit-someone-else's-work-as-their-own" to the field. In my early days of the Listener, 2011 and 2012, I needed a lot of hints and wouldn't be here today without them. These days I'm giving them out as much as receiving them. Not sure I'd be there if the hints were effectively presenting the full solution with no working, but small nudges (like a Dad teaching his son to ride the bike) are fine, and should be welcomed.

Hopefully the Listener has many long years ahead of it to come.

[Philoctetes]

Take a hypothetical solver. The Listener is difficult, we all know, so he uses aids. Chambers - fine. Bradford - fine? Still finds it hard. Quinaplus/tea - fine? Still struggles - asks the wife who spots an answer - fine? Or a colleague at the office? Or a complete stranger, a friend of a friend, who was at the same table in the pub? The bottom line is that we all do this for our own motivations, we all have our own boundaries, and, in the end we are affecting nobody in what we do. Unless, of course, we win the raffle and get a prize of yet another Brewer.

[Orientfan100]

I agree with you on 'solvers', Jim360. But I've never been able to complete a puzzle solely due to advice found on the other site. With this one, the perimeter elements have not been given away. Even with help, solvers still have to do most of the work!

[jim360]

I've rarely glance at the other place these days so I don't know what the advice is like beyond its being more than just "I thought this was a nice puzzle". So long as people still have to do the work, it's probably a good thing to have both communities.

[EAChaplin]

At present we have three levels. Up until about 2007/8 this was 'the other place' and horrified members of the Crossword Centre bulletin board. They have a very strict rule that current puzzles may not be even mentioned until the results are published. This forum no longer gives 'nudges' so it was pretty certain that another site would open where help could be obtained.

I agree with Jim that if the occasional 'nudge' was forbidden this would somewhat deplete numbers of new solvers. Philoctetes sums it up exactly.

[Cagey]

There is a lot of general ability built into crossword solving. There is also a lot of learned technique, especially for themed crosswords. When I started doing these some time in the middle of 2013 I needed more help than I require now and did use the "other site" (under same name), have not needed to ask a question on it for a long time. Now if I need a hint, I ask for one from an individual as the form of a hint, not an answer, as then I will get a hint and not see lots of other hints or even full answers such as those displayed on the other site. I think this is a reasonable way to learn. There is a place for both sites. That said I think that to keep this site purely dedicated to appreciating the puzzle and comment on enjoyment is important. I am sure that at least a setters must come here and see what we think.
I suspect they would also look at answerbank (or is that like mentioning Macbeth?) to see what (some) people found difficult to increase whatever that was next time...

[tramart]

The one hint I needed to get me going came from THIS thread, and that is by no means unusual, so it's very much a matter of degree. I do look in the other place once solved, or totally stuck, but I haven't submitted a solution in years - one 'all correct' + invite to the dinner was all I could ever have aspired to and I don't want the prize that's on offer. Those who regard the other place as cheating, which it is if entering, might ponder whether it is legit for two people to submit entries as a couple, or even solve as such.
As I've said often enough, it's only a game!
I just hope we don't get one based on the nonsense currently taking place in SA, that would be even worse than one on religion.

[Ruthrobin]

I was following the discussion with interest and felt that all that needed to be said was said by jim360, Cagey et al - honestly, Cagey, I think setters look in to gauge responses and perhaps tone down the difficulty that upsets some people, not step it up. Most of us who have received lots of hints in the past have built up familiarity with the Listener over time and solve with far more ease. I actually come here only when I have a full grid these days but I am very happy to give all the hints I am asked for off-line and feel that that is a way of encouraging people to attempt what, to us, too, seemed impossible when we first broached the Listener. That 'US' is my reason for speaking here. Solving as a couple is a very enjoyable social thing and can sometimes be the highlight of the week (OK Get a life!) and lots of single solver friends tell me how much they envy us that privilege. It is only a game. After a couple of 'all corrects' (when I had received lots of helpful hints - sorry!) we are solving for pleasure, as a couple, with no desire at all for yet another Brewers (I wish they would change that prize - even though we never win one from the Listener). The only real advantage of an 'all correct' is that you get to choose the gold cup winners - so I vote firmly for solving as a couple, a family or even a platoon - perfectly legit. Must get back to setting the two on religion and SA. Watch this space.

[BlackHugh]

I'm embarassed to say I won two Brewers from the Listener last year - after having just purchased the latest one! (Sods law yet again). Had a lot of fun with this one by putting it on Excel and filling in all the original Tetris colours. This made me nostalgic for the early days of computer games when we used to play it at work in the lunch hour.