Listener 4303: Qvwke Vbcfa By Nutmeg

[AHearer]

Good fun, with sufficiently straightforward clues to render it not too challenging. I think 'across the grid' must be interpreted as 'all the way across the grid' to resolve ambiguities in entering the highlighting. Thanks, Nutmeg.

[Ruthrobin]

Yes indeed, this was a lovely jaunt and nowhere near as difficult as we feared when we saw the playfair square on the grid. I haven't seen any ambiguities AHearer - perhaps I need to look again. Thanks Nutmeg for another of your lovely evocative themes.

[olichant]

I echo the above - my heart sank a bit when I saw it was a playfair, but the theme came fairly easier. Enjoyable all round.

[trux]

Yes, indeed: much enjoyed working out each of the elements to this puzzle, even after relatively early PDM. Neatly constructed grid (with nice symmetric encoded entries) and well wrought clues. I see how AH's ambiguity could work but think the preamble's wording rules it out and it is sufficiently clear what needs to be submitted. Many thanks to Nutmeg - and I suppose this evens up the score with her recent IQ (or, had she known that they'd be published so close together, would she have called this Omen II?)

[jim360]

Well I'm blowed if I can see what the final highlighting will be...

[Cagey]

Another good puzzle. Agreed pleasing, but early pdm, nice symmetry and fun final step. Thank you nutmeg.

[lyrabelacqua]

Very nice. Last steps were a hold-up for a while, but now all safely put to bed.

[u10]

Jim. Go back and think of all the information you had to deduce.

[jim360]

Glanced at your post, not half a second later I saw what had to be done. Derp. Thanks!

Makes for a nice final touch.

[upsetter]

Great clues and composition. Originally going to moan about the Playfair aspect but on reflection it forced us to revisit a couple of careless answers.
There is an ambiguity in the entry of the second name, for as long as one's putting off grinding through the code.

[upsetter]

We guess that those who found this easy were on the downhill slope as as result of the 'obvious' meaning of "in appropriate fashion".
Those who achieve the correct interpretation by imaginative leap as opposed to familiarity with the range of Listener tricks are to be admired.
Otherwise crunching the codeword from the entries could have been tough and tedious.
We suggest that for the above reason rather than any inherent difficulty, this would have been unsuitable for a newbie

[s_pugh]

I'm sure this is incredibly clever but I find myself utterly stumped within sight of the finish line. I've solved all the clues, identified the 6 names as well as the two additional ones and where they are to be entered. But how on earth can one determine the Playfair code-word other than by a lucky guess? Especially as it doesn't even give a hint at the length of the code-word!! Obviously some people got lucky - I didn't! Play fair? Hardly!

[jim360]

Playfair codes, for all their sophistication, are surprisingly vulnerable. Sometimes you need barely two pairs to break it.

Perhaps it's a bit against the spirit of the thing, but quinapalus provides a playfair breaker. If you'd rather do it by hand, then a good guide to the method is provided here: http://www.umich.edu/~umich/fm-34-40-2/ch7.pdf

[perseverer]

If you choose to use it http://www.quinapalus.com/playfair.html will quickly solve your problem with the letter pairings you already have.

[s_pugh]

Thanks jim360 and perseverer, that was a feature of Q I'd never heard of.

As to the phrase, I don't believe it! I'd only come up with two ideas, one was the obvious one (which for equally obvious reasons didn't work) and the other was the correct one only I missed out letter 7! So near and yet so far ..... thanks too to Nutmeg.

[contendo]

Another useful site for helping with Playfairs is http://blankaspect.users.sourceforge.net/playfair/playfair.html#sectionSolutions. I've filled the grid and got the title but have yet to sort out the decoding of the extra letters. You only need one incorrect or missing to get garbage.
I thought 11D was clever.

[olichant]

Jim360, thank you for the interesting link.

I've always been a bit sceptical about the use of the Playfair device in advanced crosswords where it has no thematic significance and only serves to introduce an element of superfluous complexity. (And for anyone who hasn't already seen it, the George v Listener commentary on L4236 puts it far better than I ever could). But I thought the integration of the Playfair with the theme here did work nicely.

[Scorpius]

A very good puzzle with a good set of clues (slightly uneasy about the operator in 26a, which seems appropriate only in a legal sense according to Chambers). I did struggle a little at first, but after getting three of the thematic clues I guessed the title, which Nutmeg had kindly encoded. I confess to taking a short cut with a Playfair cracker, which gave me the keyword immediately. I'm afraid at my age life's too short to spend ages moving letters around a 5x5 grid.

[Ruthrobin]

Scorpius, my guess is that about 90% of us did the same.

[Patch49]

Without the cracker I would have struggled but I am pleased to have completed all elements. Lord Peter Wimsey did it the long way in Have his Carcase.

[IainGrace]

Enjoyed this, as we usually don't attempt Playfairs, but the theme was obvious and the Playfair code phrase emerged without recourse to "cheating". Dispatched in a single two hour session, aided by copious supplies of red, so would encourage Playfair agnostics to give it a go. No ambiguity about "across the grid", since it clearly directs one to go right rather than left, down or up, if given those options.