Listener 4322 By Radix

[Ruthrobin]

How sad to see the last puzzle by Radix. Of course he treats us to a range of devices. We have just found the source with a great sigh of relief but still have lots of systematic calculation to complete. Thank you Radix if you are watching us from somewhere up there.

[Scorpius]

Sunny-dave, I think two of the clues should have had a foreign indicator. Radix wasn't particularly keen on the change of rules making such indications mandatory, so he might have taken a gamble and hoped it would get through. Whether that's the case or not, it's an editorial lapse not to rectify the omissions.

Like others I found this a mind-numbing slog. I got the quote quite early when I guessed the author from a set of just three misprint possibilities, but even then it was another eight hours before I finally cracked the last paired clues. Unlike 'Taste and Fancy' and 'No Robbery', both of which were equally tough but hugely enjoyable, I found the reward for all the slog rather slight, apart from the obvious satisfaction and relief at having cracked it.
I'm still not sure what the connection is between the workings of the puzzle, the original quotation and the thematic source. I haven't read the source material so perhaps I'm missing something, but I assume the only relevance to the puzzle is in the first four words of the quotation.

[Staurologist]

A stiff task indeed. I usually find that the very completion of a tough solve is reward enough, but on this occasion I did not feel the usual warm glow suffusing me on contemplating the finished grid. I did, however, greatly admire the construction. How did he find all those pairs? Could it have been a computer-programmed task? I didn't get the quotation until near the end, partly because I got it into my mind that it must be the second word that had been changed, not the last one, and was ruminating about ambition, distraction, and uglification, if not derision. But then it turned out to be a totally different famous quote altogether. Good to re-read the original, which was excellent compensation.

[tristram37]

My feeling about this puzzle is that the clues were unnecessarily difficult and obscure. Take for example the first answer to 13 across. The definition here was completely unfair, being more a definition of a definition. I suspect the editors were more than usually forgiving in the circumstances - there were many instances of cluing that would not normally be allowed (I speak from bitter experience!). When a puzzle is as complicated as this I think the definitions should be immediately identifiable in Chambers. Otherwise it's just difficulty for difficulty's sake. At times it seemed like two numerical puzzles in successive weeks!

[Orientfan100]

'Difficulty for difficulty's sake' is a very good way of putting it, tristram37.

I have started doing the Listener again this year after a gap of about 20 years and my overriding feeling is that far too many puzzles are overly convoluted and require more cold solving than I remember.

There is much less sense of a gradual journey of discovery - instead of CROSS (ie intersecting) word puzzles, too many are just very tough word puzzles before we get near any crossing to shed enlightenment!

It's sad when comments on a puzzle by such a renowned compiler as Radix are so lukewarm.

I too feel that some puzzles are designed primarily to display the brilliance of the setter rather than satisfy the solver.

[EAChaplin]

That may be because a goodly percentage of Listener solvers, or at least those who send in entries, are themselves setters. Maybe Roddy saw this as an opportunity to beat Sabre to the Epson Platinum Vase for most difficult puzzle oty, but we've yet to see a Sabre in 2014:-)

[Philoctetes]

Well, that was 90% slog. Firstly, may I say the construction was impressive. But....Cluing was not so much obscure, in many places it was just plain bad; linguistic indicators that should have been used, weren't; cold-solving predominated to an unacceptable degree. But what on earth was the "subject"? In what way did the title link to the puzzle except as an afterthought? And the "quotation" in original form is just wrong. This breaks so many conventions it is what I would expect of a new setter wishing to show how clever he was, not a respected and acknowledged master.

[JackDeCrow]

Hi all. Haven't been on here for a while, but having only just finished this (and no, I didn't get a late start!) I had to come and check whether I was the only one who had just devoted an entire week of his life to a crossword! What a stinker (in the difficult rather than unpleasant sense!). Mind you, the last two pennies to drop for me were the title and 17a (of which the former and the first half of the latter turned out not to be so hard after all!). So, my feelings are mixed - I can see why some people are a bit cross but also I quite like it when the occasional Listener is this hard - helps to maintain its rightful place in the world! And of course, there's also sheer relief - one, just to have finished and two, that I didn't have to go to work this week!

[spiderFreak]

Well, thank goodness for Openoffice Calc - invaluable for this week's and for last's. The short story of the original quotation makes an entertaining read - available on the internet. Amazing though how often the quotation is misquoted - even in wikipedia!

[s_pugh]

Woo-hoo! First time in the Friday Club … ;¬)

Incredibly clever puzzle, marred by some appalling clues. Can’t really argue with anything anyone else has put, just glad I finally reconciled my last clue (17ac) so no nagging doubts due to ‘chancing it’ with seemingly obvious answers. Thanks to Radix but I think it was stretching acceptability in several places.

[EdgeofDarkness]

Meursault back from beyond the grave. So Radix thought that setting a puzzle using multiples of 26 and remainders, combined with normal answers, in such a way that solving of one clue in many cases gave no assistance to solving of another. Either Radix was wrong, or The Times was wrong, because terming such a puzzle a 'Listener Crossword' is deceitful. Rebrand it 'Listener Puzzle' and I will accept such offerings, though clearly they verge on time-wasting -
though I suppose for many of the solvers, that is the object of the exercise.