Gender Neutral Passports, Clearly A Very Important Topic, Really?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gender-neutral-passports-move-a-step-closer-to-reality-after-labour-backing-10123734.html

/// Baroness Stowell, who attends Cabinet, said: “Clearly this is a very important topic.” ///

[douglas9401]

Good that they keep themselves busy with this carp.

Will there be a dedicated flying squad to offer assistance when the holder is refused entry to anywhere in the real world?

[Gromit]

Very misleading headline on that Independent report. Seems be giving vredit/blame to Labour, when it looks like it will happen whoever gets in.

// Yvette Cooper pledges TO LOOK INTO introducing 'Gender X' passports for people who identify themselves as neither male nor female.

Gender neutral passports COULD soon be a reality after Yvette Cooper, the shadow home secretary, said she would CONSIDER introducing them if Labour wins wins the election. //

That does not sound like a firm pledge from Labour.

// The move is already backed by the Liberal Democrats, who have been working on proposals but have had their efforts blocked by the Conservatives.

But a Tory minister said she would also like to review “Gender X” passports, suggesting there could soon be cross-party backing for the idea. //

So if we have a Conservative or another Coalition Government, the change to passports will happen.

------------------

It is one of those things which seem important to the small number of people it affects. It clearly doesn't affect you which explains your lukewarm response to it.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// It clearly doesn't affect you which explains your lukewarm response to it. ///

Hardly a lukewarm response from you Gromit, are you trying to tell us something? :0)

[Gromit]

AOG,
I confess I have never given the gender on passports a second thought until you posted your supposed question. I have no strong feelings about it either way, but I cannot see any harm it will do.

// are you trying to tell us something? :0) //

The same could be asked about AB's No.1 poster on all things Gay and Lesbian.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// The same could be asked about AB's No.1 poster on all things Gay and Lesbian. ///

My comment was a joke, unlike yours it seems who chose to turn it into a personal insult, but nothing unusual there then.

[mushroom25]

does anyone know if current holders of gender x passports (australia, NZ and Nepal) experience difficulties entering certain countries, particularly those with a conservative outlook on the world?

[sp1814]

AOG

Why would that be a personal insult?

Besides, what Gromit wrote is true.

You post more questions about gay and lesbian issues than anyone else on the AB News section by some degree.

[sp1814]

mushroom2

Interesting question - I suspect that those countries (Middle East, some African nations and Russia) would be more interested in identifying and excluding gay and lesbian travellers from entering, than intersex people.

[grasscarp]

I actually have 2 birth certificates - one saying I am a boy and the other (correct one!) a girl. Registrar error not spotted until my father got back from registering the birth.

[andy-hughes]

I think there is a danger of becoming interested in issues only if you are directly affected, and that is a route to small-mindedness.

If as society we only look at issues deemed 'important', then who makes the measure of what is important or not?

So I think it is important if everyone tries to keep an open mind on the issues our MP's examine - fro those directly affected everyone, to those that affect a minority.

I do think this issue is important, because it flags up wider issues about tolerance and acceptance of people who are different from the majority, and those two issues are very important for everyone.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// You post more questions about gay and lesbian issues than anyone else on the AB News section by some degree. ///

Perhaps most are too scared to opposes certain gay & lesbian issues in case they are called Homophobic.

It was once the same with race issues, with the fright of being called racist, but recently it has become more acceptable to discuss racial issues, even our leaders have told us it is.

[sevenOP]

May encourage gender-neutral bathrooms.

[anotheoldgit]

sevenOP

/// May encourage gender-neutral bathrooms. ///

What no female and male couplings?

Now then, they were plumbing terms.

[mushroom25]

//I do think this issue is important, because it flags up wider issues about tolerance and acceptance of people who are different from the majority, and those two issues are very important for everyone. //

possibly. but given all the other demands being made on our mps, is it really the best use that could be made of parliamentary time?

[naomi24]

Can someone please enlighten me? Are these passports meant for genuine hermaphrodites, or for people who feel they have been born in the wrong bodies, or for people who are some sort of politically correct mission to eliminate reference to gender, or for 'all of the above'? I would have added those who have undergone sex change surgery to the list, but having professed a preference they are clearly not 'genderless'. Words like 'intersex' are being bandied around, but what does that actually mean and who exactly would be defined as an 'intersex' person?

[Mamyalynne]

'Intersex' is hugely hard to pin down in actual groupings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

As long as these proposed passports are accepted on a Global level, I can see no issue with them.

[naomi24]

Mamyalynne, thanks for the link. It seems pretty clear. According to that it's someone who is born with physical abnormalities and hence cannot be distinctly identified as male or female, which makes sense, I fail to see where the LGBT issue comes into this.

[sp1814]

AOG

How strange - you wrote:

"Perhaps most are too scared to opposes certain gay & lesbian issues in case they are called Homophobic."

I had no idea that the many questions you post on LBGT issues are rooted your opposition of 'gay issues'.

[sp1814]

naomi24

That's how I read the proposals as well. This isn't a gay/straight/transgender issue at all.

People who self identify as transgender are not physically intersex - but those who are should have access to passports that reflect this.

mushroom25 - this is important to a very small section of society, but it's a section of society who should have their issues dealt with by our elected representatives.

We all pay for our MPs and we all engage in the democratic process, so whether the issue is mainstream or not should not determine its importance.

The proposal to send 600 tonnes of Scottish langoustine to Thailand for processing (and then back again to Scotland for export to Europe) is something that most people have very little interest in, but Hansard reports on a parliamentary debate on the subject because it affects the jobs of 120 people employed by Youngs.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmhansrd/cm061115/debtext/61115-0012.htm

Government needs to reflect the interest of all its people.

[sp1814]

By the way AOG, leaving aside the semantic cul-de-sac your pluralisation of the word 'oppose' introduces, it's not actually possible to 'oppose gay issues'.

'Gay issues' is neutral and therefore you cannot take a stand for or against it.

'Gay adoption' = gay issue.

'The push to encourage more gay people to adopt' = a position which can be supported or opposed.

One other thing - a better example of 'homophobic' is where someone feels that they have been insulted if someone else implies that they might be gay, as you did in your answer to Gromit.

If someone assumed I was straight (and it happens very frequently), then it makes me laugh and I correct them...I would NEVER feel insulted.