Listener No 4339 Mixed Doubles By Shackleton

[upsetter]

At last an absolute cowson. This is what we have been waiting for all year.
5 half-clues solved and already fighting the urge to give up.

[jim360]

I keep glancing at the Schadenfreude CAM puzzles and wonder "Oh, wouldn't it be nice if, you know, I could actually enter something into the grid without having to solve every other clue around it?" ...

[olichant]

Jim, I couldn't agree more! Always excellent clues, though.

[starwalker]

This has been a brute of a puzzle, but just about everything is now forgiven when I see the final outcome. Thanks Shackleton, but not too soon for the next one ?

[icynorth]

Boy, were those clues tough!

The final construction is most impressive, though. It fits the theme on a number of levels. I guess it would have been a difficult grid to compile, so the setter made sure we didn't unlock it too easily.

[trux]

An excellent week & weekend with three beauts: this and the Schadenfreude in the CAM and (just when you thought it was safe to go back in the waters....) have a crack at the unbelievably (tough and) beautiful Wan in the Magpie ... Many thanks to all three.

[IainGrace]

Well on the way with this now, and we await the denouement with interest. Standing back to think how the last few clues must fit into the grid helps.

[IainGrace]

..."last" as in last listed, rather than last solved!

[easterfool]

When I looked at this I wondered how I was going to start fitting anything in. Some judicious additions to the grid helped and then behold - the first clue solved went in. Slow progress after that with lots of lovely solving moments, giggles, oohs and aahs. The final stages just amazed me - thanks for a superb battle and hard-fought victory, Shackleton. Now I can send two solutions together to JG - most fitting - and beat the postage price rises.

[Scorpius]

I expected it to be tough, but I think it turned out to be somewhat tougher than I expected. Some of the clues were very hard nuts to crack, with some very devious wordplay. Am I alone in thinking that the across clue in the second 2 clue should have had an archaism indicator to comply with Listener rules? It's absence made me doubt my answer for a while.

A lovely final grid but I'm puzzled by the symbols, which seem wrongly placed and one of them isn't even thematically appropriate. Perhaps I'm misising something.

[upsetter]

Scorpius - The BRB does define the word as archaic or dialect - but it is still in fairly common use.
As to the symbols, if you have got everything correct they make perfect sense and are essential to understand the final coup-de-grace of this fantastic puzzle.

[olichant]

Scorpius - does it perhaps help that the definition part of the clue itself is marked as archaic in Chambers, so that gives the necessary "equivalence"? (I ask the question openly - I'm not sure how rigorous the setting rules are on points like this!)

[Garaman]

I think that the purpose of an archaic indicator or similar is to be fair to solvers and warn them that they might not have heard of the answer, but when, like here, that is unlikely to be the case I wouldn’t have thought it necessary

Wonderful puzzle.

[Scorpius]

Upsetter et al, you make a fair point about the archaism.

Once I erased everything that's not wanted, and followed the instruction, I could see the significance of the symbols. I thought initially they referred to the song.

[tenpit]

This is frustrating. I have found absolutely everything in the grid; the 4 words; the song and the phrase. And 5 of the 6 elements from the song. The last, I feel, should be obvious by now. Anybody else failed to manage the last step. Another night's sleep may do the trick.

[Scorpius]

Tenpit, I suspect the element that you're missing is the one that is "arguably more apposite than the original." As you have the others you should know where in the grid to look. If you find nothing after further searching it might be fruitful to look up all the song elements in Bradford's or similar solving aid.

[pushmi-pullyu]

Tenpit, I'm in exactly the same position as you, and feeling just as frustrated!

[Cruncher]

Have what I assume is a completed grid with circles and lines and symbols and instructions fulfilled but can't get why that is anything but a very tenuous depiction of the song

[perseverer]

The first line of the song?

[Cruncher]

Aah. Twigged. Understand the numbers now. Groan

[borealis]

Wonderful. A full week's entertainment, with wonderful clues and a few red herrings. I particularly liked the way the construction allowed logic to determine where some clues should be entered, giving an accessible start without too much cold solving, and letting the grid fill steadily in one direction. Shackleton, thank you.