Listener No 4355: Shorthand Crosses By Aragon

[AHearer]

A lovely construction, with fairly straightforward clues. I hadn't come across the verse, and have only been able to locate the vital couplet -- if the rest of it is available I hope somebody will post a link once the closing date is past. The use of that couplet was very neat. Many thanks to Aragon.

[EV_Solver]

Upsetter, your dismissal of the problem is ridiculous. Having spent hours this morning on a seemingly unsolvable puzzle, RuthRobin's views are correct. Given that answers have letters omitted on entry, having a column missing (which I was unaware of until a friend told me just now) makes the puzzle unfinishable - and the problem not obvious at all. Newspaper solvers, many of whom will struggle on in ignorance, are at a massive disadvantage. It is simply unfair. If you had wasted half of your day battling with this, then you would think the same.

[upsetter]

OK EV, to be fair we have not seen what it looks like in print, our observations were perhaps presumptions. We had been told that there was a column missing and we imagined that this was apparent. If not it must have been jolly baffling!

[Garaman]

I was drawn to look at 14d by Olichant’s second post but the surface makes no sense to me and I must have read it about fifty times.

‘Ringing number, maybe one that’s called shepherd’s son languishes’

Can someone please put me out of my misery and tell me what the surface is saying?

[olichant]

Garaman - you are right, and (idiotically) I chose a clue that has a shaky surface - though I do love the wordplay. That having been said, I thought most of these clues were really good.

It's probably a sign of my increasing age, but I am finding that much as I love a really good theme and endgame (both very much present in this puzzle) I really enjoy savouring high-quality clues - the likes of Artix, Shackleton, Sabre et al.

[Garaman]

I really thought that I was missing something in the reading, Olichant, but I agree there are some lovely constructions.

[jim360]

Oh dear. And there I was making arrangements to submit from overseas, and it might not even matter. Ho hum. Bad luck Aragon.

On the other hand, at least now I know why I was struggling with the clues. Lately I tend to do better on Listener clues than on those from your back-of-the-paper main crossword. Aragon's eclectic cluing style, I suppose.

[contendo]

I thought some of the cluing was really brilliant. Two minor quibbles, though:
the definition in 31dn is inaccurate and the answer to 10ac is so obscure that it doesn't appear in the relevant Wikipedia list.
Meanwhile, I'm stuck at the final stage, having filled the grid, got the poet, the author and the "related names" in the grid. I'm damned if I can see the words from the verse though. No doubt they're staring me in the face.

[lyrabelacqua]

Contendo, 31dn works for me. Are you sure you are thinking of the right state? And yes, the words are staring you in the face. Heck of a PDM for me. Probably my favourite puzzle this year, on intricacy grounds. A great shame about the printed version.

[contendo]

Yes, Lyrabelacqua, wrong state. Sneaky.

[Philoctetes]

Very nice - a proper Listener. I am a mite perplexed by 21, though. The wordplay produces only one answer, and that fits the grid (phew!). But the definition?

[u10]

Look at the second of the two definitions.

[aldanna]

Not too difficult a gridfill, but I have arrived at what appears to be the correct endpoint (15 letters duly replaced) without understanding what to do according to the middle part of the preamble. However, I am so nearly sure I am right that I shall ignore the usual Listener rule of not sending it in unless every t is dotted and i is crossed.

Incidentally, I was on holiday last week and fighting the Listener for a short while each evening after dinner.....one night with Himself sitting next to me wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with what I think I would have found to be the relevant expression, had I managed to finish the crossword.

[kdgs2]

aldanna, I was in exactly the same position - send away, but do persevere with making sense of it. For me, that particular part of the puzzle was the most impressive!

[pushmi-pullyu]

I'm stumped. I've filled the grid, found the quotation, and replaced 12 letters. But it seems to me that there are two possibilities for the remaining 3. And I have no idea what the title means. Very often the mere fact of posting brings enlightenment - that's what I hope will happen now.

[s_pugh]

Despite what Upsetter thinks I believe there will be many who give up on this one. I spent ages trying to work out how to reduce entries such as 12ac from a 5 letter answer to a 4 letter entry. This isn’t as daft as it sounds given the mentioned thematic reductions, and it wouldn’t be the first time that a Listener grid was incomplete at one side. I’m finished now, but if I hadn’t seen AHearers helpful post I might well have thrown in the towel.

It’s a shame though as this was a great puzzle, and I especially liked the almost ‘Pythonesque’ one (I won’t say which so as not to give anything away). I just don’t envy the errant typesetter on their return to work on Monday morning. Thanks Aragon, be gentle with the aforementioned!

[perseverer]

I'm not sure you would replace the fifteen letters correctly without understanding the instructions.

[icynorth]

Almost until the very end, I was convinced the missing column was part of the theme. I don't think they should cancel this one - it didn't hinder at all.

Great puzzle - thanks Aragon!

[Pasquin]

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but they don't seem to be thinking of cancelling the puzzle. The correct grid has been up on http://www.listenercrossword.com/ all day, but that still doesn't help those who don't use the Internet.

[Pasquin]

Aaah, I'm behind myself. From the Times Crossword Club --

The editors are to publish the following to accompany next week's puzzle:

The grid printed for Listener Crossword 4355 had the last column cut off. The correct version, which has 180-degree symmetry, can be downloaded from listenercrossword.com, or solvers may write the required letters to the right of the printed form.

[petefoxes]

Agreed with icynorth, but with sympathies for those who were baffled. I thought the column would turn out to be deliberately missing as well. However, I start by copying the grid into a notepad, so I spotted the bars on the right hand edge at the outset. A shame. A really smart puzzle, especially the replacement of the 15 letters. Thanks, Aragon.